12ga ball size

[Tb54]

why is a 12 ga ball mold .662” when the 12ga bore is .73”? That’s a patch .034” thick, or about.

 

[hawkeye2]

That's because it may be fired through a full choke barrel and it has to be small enough to pass through the restriction. This really applies more to cartridge guns than muzzleloaders. You can buy round ball molds to suit your bore, I have Lyman molds in .715" & .735" for use in my .75" Brown Bess.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Yes, as Hawkeye says and.....
Some are designed for dropping in a plastic wad etc.

 

[Feltwad]

The early cartridge guns with choke were stamped [Not For Ball}
Feltwad

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Some are designed for dropping in a plastic wad

Yes, the old "pumpkin ball" or as they used to pronounce it on the Eastern Shore of Maryland, "punkin' baw" (as the ball has a slight sprue left in some of the old loads) was a ball on top of a wad.

A lot, I mean a whole lot, of "utility SxS shotguns" of the first half of the 20th century were choked Improved cylinder to cylinder bore in the right barrel and what today is called "improved modified" (which is really half way between modified and full choke). What this gave the farmer, was a pretty versatile shotgun, which worked for deer, upland birds, and waterfowl. It wasn't optimal for all of the different forms of game included in that wide range, but it worked for the fellows who could only own one gun in their lifetimes, and for guns intended to put meat into the pot..., not for "sporting purposes".

So the .729 barrels on the right were from .729 to .724 or .720... and a .710 ball would work without harming the choke. The left barrels were .705 to .700, which were reserved for things like squirrel in the trees, turkey, and waterfowl. BUT...,, when the plastic shot cups came around, both the ball AND the plastic had to clear the choke at the same time so that's why you will find molds for "12 ga. ball" in the .660's sizes. In fact it was very inexpensive during The Great Depression, to open up a "low brass" upland bird shell, and saving the shot, to then insert one of those smaller ball, and pour in a bit of wax to hold it in place. Yes..., a "Hillbilly Slug" [cutting the shell so the entire portion above the powder breaks loose and goes down range as a solid mass) was another expedient method which was only good to about 20 yards..., while opening a bird shell and replacing the shot with a ball would give you 40-50 yards.

I have an old Savage 311 SxS and the choking info as told to me by my late grandfather bore this out, and the info on the shotshell modifications was from him as well.

For the OP I'd suggest a .710 or even a .720 ball if you're going to shoot "bare ball" from a 12 gauge smoothbore with a cylinder bore.

LD

 

[Grenadier1758]

why is a 12 ga ball mold .662” when the 12ga bore is .73”? That’s a patch .034” thick, or about.

The proper ball size for a given smoothbore is determined by the diameter at the muzzle and if choked, the bore diameter of the barrel, not the label on the box.

There is enough variation in dimensions of guns (barrels) produced by different manufacturers that the determination of what ball to use starts with accurate measurements.

I have an old 1970's era fowler made from a full choke 12 gauge shotgun barrel. The muzzle measures 0.700" in diameter while the bore is closer to 0.729. I have shot a 0.690" or 0.680" ball, but I think this gun must be dedicated to shot. Too much gas leakage on firing to use with ball.

 

[curator]

tb54:

The .662 round ball works fine in a plastic shot sleeve and a cylinder bore. Don't shot this combination through a choked barrel. I also shoot this size "patched" in my Navy Arms 12 ga. SXS.

 

[bigted]

My older navy 12 gauge is an open cylinder bore in both barrels.

At first I could not get it to do worth a dang, but then I purchased three different size balls from TOW to try. I shot these for groups using both barrels to see where they regulated.

I will have to re visit my info ... but the largest balls purchased did the trick. These barrels regulate within a inch out to 40 yards ( never tryed it any further ) and the two giant holes nearly touch. I do not recall the powder charge but it shoots easy and after installing a peep rear on the rib and a bead atop a blade front, this old shotgun would and will make a very good close range gun for any north American game. She is a survivalists dream. A real woods gun and very quick swinging so I feel very comfortable carrying it anywhere.

 

[Carbon 6]

I shoot a .690 ball out of my 12 gauge. I also use that same ball in modern 12 gauge. One reason for smaller balls is that smooth bores don't have rifling, a place for the patch material to go. That means that in identical bores with the same diameter balls and patch thickness, if one has rifling and one is smooth, The patched ball will fit tighter in the smooth bore than in the rifled one.

 

[BrownBear]

If I was serious about ball shooting from smoothbores, I'd sure spend the money to test some alternate ball sizes. A bud is in fact serious and he got a Tanner mold for .700 balls. From his gun and mine they seem to perform much better than .690, both patched and bare. I didn't get off the dime and order my own before Tanner parted the mortal coil, so I'll continue to be in my bud's good graces for a supply of balls if I decide to shoot more.

 

[Rifleman1776]

why is a 12 ga ball mold .662” when the 12ga bore is .73”?

There is often little to no standardization between makes and models of modern made ml firearms. I find this to be especially true of smooth bores and even more prevalent with military style muskets. e.g. Brown Besses, Charlevilles, etc. I have had '12 ga. smoothies that went from actual 14 ga. to actual 11 ga. in size. And, smoothies with ball often are shot with no patching according to the owners preference. One reason often stated for undersized balls in smoothies is that the smaller ball loads easier after the barrel get gunked up from several shots. Test your barrel with different patches and/or wads. Don't sweat the numbers, do what works best for you. FWIW, my '12 ga.' Brown Bess likes a .715" ball and that is the size of my mould.

 

[SmokepoleSam]

BrownBear , Jeff's son is carrying on the business according to his death notice in the "Beyond the Great Divide" topic in "General Muzzleloading"

 

[smoothshooter]

tb54:

The .662 round ball works fine in a plastic shot sleeve and a cylinder bore. Don't shot this combination through a choked barrel. I also shoot this size "patched" in my Navy Arms 12 ga. SXS.

What kind of accuracy do you get out of the SxS, and do both barrels print together?

 

[BrownBear]

BrownBear , Jeff's son is carrying on the business according to his death notice in the "Beyond the Great Divide" topic in "General Muzzleloading"

Great news. Thanks!

 

[Rat]

A simple way to "measure" if a ball is not oversized for the choke, is to just gently push it down the barrel, and then pull it with a ball puller. There should be very little resistance as it passes through the choke.

I usually dedicate the ball load to the barrel with the least choke, and stick to that barrel for shooting ball. However, it's probably safer to set it up for the barrel with the most choke, so that it will safely pass through either choke. That might be more important with a cartridge gun, where you might feed the shell into the wrong barrel in the heat of the moment.

Since practical accuracy with a smooth bore is around 50 yards, I don't think one would worry about both barrels printing together, I'm pretty sure that at 50 yards or less, most SXS's would. Again, I dedicate a ball load to one barrel or the other...but I understand the value of the fast, second, follow up shot that a side by side can offer. And, again, if your load is set up for the barrel with the most choke, then it's safe to fire in the more open barrel, although accuracy won't be as good, in theory.

I have found that a patched .690" ball works great in 12 gauge.

 

[Huntschool]

Ya really have to measure the bore on almost any smoothie these days. I bought a 20 ga with a Rice barrel that was called a .62 and yet it measures dead on at .610 at the muzzle. I also have a 40 year old Getz Golden Age profile full octagon that measures dead nut .620. Two different barrels. Two different balls..... Both listed as .62. Pays to measure before you buy lead etc.

Yea, I know, the OP was talking about 12 ga stuff but the same applies.....

 

[Rat]

Quite right, my .62 caliber rifle barrel is really .614-.618". (.618 at most) But again, you can "measure" by taking the ball, and with different patch thickness (or bare ball) press it into the barrel, push it down, pull it out, and note how much force it takes to pass it through the choke. I haven't blown a choke yet, using that method. What I look for is very very little resistance as it passes through the choke.