12 Pdr Mountain Howitzer on Antiques Roadshow

[Greg Walden]

Anyone catch the mountain howitzer barrel on Antiques Roadshow last night? (before you watched the Tar Heels whup them Yankees in basketball, that is)

I believe the show was in Reno. The feller had dug it up in his yard and didn't know what it was, till he finally realized it was a cannon. Made in 1853 by Cyrus Alger & Co. in Boston. The appraiser, Christopher Mitchell, told him $30K - $35K! Then Mr. Mitchell told him that it was possible that the barrel could still be on a list of "missing Government weapons" and might not be his to sell! Anyone ever heard of that?

Greg

 

[Flint50]

Sometimes I think our Government can...well....er...better not say it. I think the barrel should fall under the "finders keepers" rule

 

[brian]

well this begs a list of questions.
like
what unit had a mountain howetzer in reno nevada?
between 53 and say 76,
where at in reno?
I dont think the army wants it back,
but the national park service might.
if it falls under dug up artifacts. ect.
generaly speaking if it dont have riffling the government dont really care.
but us WWII types have to be a lot more carful about things
like that.
especially scince the nazi party passed the gun controll act of 1968.
more republicans capn bragg
:m2c:

 

[brian]

fort book says-
there were 3 forts in the area:
Ft. haven established in1860 to controll the paiute ind.
by the 3rd us artillery thay were only there about 2 months.

Ft. story established about the same time, by the washoe
regement of volinteers

Ft. churchill established july 1860.
established by the 3rd us artillery.
abandond in 1869. it is now a state historical site.
so I would say its a perty good bet that it belonged to the 3rd artillery,
and I,m thinkin the state would love to have it.

more artifacts capn bragg
:results:

 

[hound dog]

I can't say for sure, but if you own the land the cannon was found on, then it is your cannon. If you found it in a river or stream bed then the barrel belongs to the government because that is their property. Had a friend lose a couple of barrels recovered from the Cape Fear river because that was gov't property. Almost got him locked up because he had no permit to look for them.
h dog

 

[musketman]

There is a thing called Salvage Rights...

 

[SquirrelsaurusR]

If it's valuable, the government will find a way to lay claim to it.

 

[Ivery Keys]

I think the ruling here may be because the govt. "loaned" a bunch of the CW cannon to cemetaries, county courthouses, and such. I do not think there was ever a formal transfer. Not long ago a cannon was removed from a local cemetary, and the govt got involved because it was still considered on "loan". Not sure how many of these instances there are, but I think what was said could prove true in court that if the govt. could prove it was lost on an expedition, they could lay claim to it...

Regards,

Ivery

 

[caneman]

Probably true on the Govt. Claim. I remember reading that at Anzio, Normandy and such they took cases of 1911's and Garands and Carbines ashore as a grab bag for anyone who had lost theirs or needed one and just put the crates out on the beach. They still are looking for the missing serial number weapons as they are Govt. Property.

 

[musketman]

So, what if someone was to pull up a Civil War naval cannon from a Federal ship that sunk off the shores of Virginia, who would own it?

It's not in international waters, but was salvaged by a non-government team...

 

[bezoar]

the government afilliations with the salvagors is moot in this scenario. They have removed Federal Property from a federal government wreck,in waters that fall under state and Federal jurisdiction/protection. So technically theyve just committed several Federal Felonies ( theft of gov. property, looting a federally protected shipwreck, and more im not sure on). and if they get the correct officials angry its very possible theyd be facing jail time for what is technically theft.
In all cases, the cannon would be confiscated.

 

[Tumblernotch]

I guess I 'd better keep my mouth shut about those "dropped" Minies and Sharps carbine rounds I found near my home as well as a nipple wrench. They might want to turn them back into inventory! Gotta keep track of what those soldiers lost. :crackup:

 

[olgriz]

I used to live about a mile form Fort Churchill, at Weeks, where the hiway crosses the Carson River. Years ago there was two 12 pounders in front of the Nevada State Museum in Carson City. They sat out in the weather for years, so the wood was getting bad. They (some one, the state?) had them restored and sent out to the museum at Fort Churchill. At about that time the state got in a big flap with the feds over these guns. The feds said they were on loan, and the state said they were given to the national guard. I don't know what all transpired, but the last time I was by Fort Churchill, about 15 years ago, the guns were still there and I think the state had won. If you find something the government wants, they are going to take it and you probably don't have enough money to fight it. There was a guy a few years ago that was on a beach down by Santa Barbara, Calif. after a big storm. The ocean had uncovered several cannons from what was no doubt a ship wreck at sometime in the distant past, and either the state or the feds took them from him, without even a thankyou or nothing. So much for salvage rights. How they can prove that it is one of their barrels I don't know. But I'd argue that Bannerman's sold army surplus ML cannon to the public after the civil war, so it's very possible that the gun barrel was in private hands at one time.

 

Actually, if these were Spanish cannons, there is no salvage rights. There was a Spanish warship off the coast of Scotland I think that was declared off limits, because it was a Spanish ship of the line.

You may want to take a look at this webpage:

In Defense of Perpetual Title to Sovereign Wrecks

 

[Gary]

The museum curators I've known have groaned at the mention of the Antique Road Show.

 

[Will Bison]

As I write this I am camped at Ft Churchill with a number of Historians and Archaeologists. The Mt Howitzer found in Reno has been the subject of discussion for the past two days. In the State Museum in Carson City there is another Mt gun by Alger dated 1836. The Carson gun is reported to have been used at Ft Homestead in Gold Hill during the CW.

As an aside, the two ordnance rifles at Ft Churchill are alive and well. They will be fired this week with blanks.

Two of us hope to get in a little bit of private research time on artillery used in the area if our schedule permits.

 

[Will Bison]

Just a bit of follow up on the Mt Gun. It was found in CA according to some of my contacts. The only connection to Nevada was that it was taken to Reno for the Antique Roadshow. The exact location of discovery in CA was not known.

 

[Gary]

That cannon was probably found around Lassen County. It's been missing for over a century. Guess what? Property of the US Army. If the Army finds out, they may want it back. :redface:

 

[prhneboy]

I did see that cannon on the show and i was surprised by the look of it after so many years.

But have you heard of the p-38 lighting that was dug up in 2000 in antartic and they were able to restore the plane to flight. That was U.S. goverment property and they were able to keep it owned privetly and they still are flying it.
but what is the differents?

That is :m2c:

bomberboy

 

I think our government should stick to looking for illegal aliens or kids on milk cartons :curse:, NOT 150 year old cannons :shake:, I've got 1911s that say Government Property right on the side , and I guess the Japanese government will be looking for me too, what a joke, he should charge them rent for keeping it in his yard all these years. :youcrazy:


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