“Smooth rifles”

[SgtErv]

We all know what they are, basically, a weapon with a smooth bore but all the characteriscs of a rifle; cheekpiece, front and rear sights, architecture...

What did they call these guns in the 18th century? Or did they call them anything in particular?

I am not a great smoothbore shot, but I do well with a rifle. I’m considering finding a “smooth rifle,” but would like to more about their provenance and such. I saw a few at the Museum of the American Revolution. Great looking guns. Sadly, I didn’t take any photos. There were lots of people there and I didn’t want to be “that guy”

 

[BrownBear]

I dunno nuttin about provenance, but I can point you to a "cheap" way to try your hand with one. Green Mountain used to make a 62 cal smoothbore drop-in with sights for TC's. You'll have to hunt for a used one now, but it would cost you a fraction the cost of a complete gun of any make. I have one, originally intending to have it rifled. But it does so well for me I never got around to the barrel scratching.

Get the barrel and like it, and you have your answer. Don't like it, I bet you can move it along without any loss of cash.

 

[George]

What did they call these guns in the 18th century? Or did they call them anything in particular?

The Pennsylvania Gazette
September 20, 1739
RUN away on the 6th Inst.... Took with him a smooth Rifle Gun.

The Pennsylvania Gazette
January 26, 1769
RUN away from his bail... he took with him a smooth rifle gun

Virginia GazetteӬ(Purdie), Williamsburg ӬApril 21, 1775.
RUN away...They had, and took with them, a country square-barrelled smooth bore gun rifle-stocked, one pistol, and other fire-arms.

Spence

 

[wattlebuster]

Look in the RCA vol 1 an 2 and you will see plenty of them. I have a smoothrifle in 12 ga an love it. Best of both worlds in my opinion

 

[Loyalist Dave]

but it would cost you a fraction the cost of a complete gun of any make.

Well, unless you were to find a rifle with a roached barrel and had Bob Hoyt ream it out for you.

LD

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
Don't think just because it is smooth bored it has to be a big caliber. One of my good friends usually beats rifles at 25 and 50 yds with a 0.40 and a 0.54 caliber smooth rifle.

dave

 

[BillinOregon]

" ... a country square-barrelled smooth bore gun rifle-stocked ..."
I wonder what that looked like. I had never heard of a square-barreled gun before.

 

[tenngun]

Also we see ”˜rifle mounted fusil’ or ”˜fuze’.

 

[dave_person]

Hi Bill,
Octagon barrels were often described as "square". However, there is a southern rifle at Valley Forge with a barrel that is really square at the breech and then transitions to a round barrel.

dave

 

[SgtErv]

And here I was worried that the thread may fall flat...

It really is the best of both worlds, in my opinion.

I unfortunately passed on an early Virginia smooth rifle that was up on Track of the Wolf. It had a crack under the entry thimble though, so probably a good call.

I am considering having my .50 cal bored out to a 20 guage. I don’t deer hunt, but I still could with a .20 guage. Farthest shot I’d ever get in WV woods is 50 yards or so. I was looking to see if Rice made a smoothbore with my profile and weight, but it doesn’t.

We shall see what the future holds.Thanks for the references Spence. Had a long conversation with my unit about what they called them back then. This will add to that discussion nicely

 

[tenngun]

I have never done business with them and read good and bad things about them, but I note that Sitting Fox arms does offer parts for a smooth rifle in 20, 24 and 28 gage in a full oct barrel in a Virgina style kit.
Since it’s a custom kit they may let you customize your parts.

 

[George]

I am considering having my .50 cal bored out to a 20 guage. I don’t deer hunt, but I still could with a .20 guage.

I think smaller caliber smoothbores are more accurate than larger ones. I've shot both .62/20 ga. and .55/28 ga. smooth rifles, and if I could have only one it would be the 28 gauge. It works very well shooting ball, and also handles shot charges well, maybe better than my 20 gauges. It would be excellent for deer.

I'm no builder, but it would seem easier to make a more attractive, slim and handy smooth rifle in a smaller caliber with its smaller barrel.

Spence

 

[md2020]

I have one of these 1 inch barrel Green Mountains on a Renegade stock....it is really fun... it shoots good with shot loads and with .595 round balls....i can easily hit a pie plate at 80 yards or so...the set trigger and sight help that...

 

[54ball]

Well, I'll shake the bushes.

What about a straight rifle?

I have two upcoming projects that may be of some interest to you in the academic sense.

1. A walnut stocked rifle gun inspired by RCA119. Basically it's a rifle with a full octagaonal bbl but with English fowler furniture including a fowling gun trikker bow and the round bottom buttplate and toe. 119 was thought to be Virginia but now it's attributed to Newcomer.

2. This one I'm really excited about this one... Fred Miller "Feather Gun Stock" with a Rayl Feathergun barrel in .54 Straight Rifle!
Should be a Sa-Weet gun!
The feather Gun is close kin to the Early Virginia, Faber, Brass Barreled and Woodsrunner Rifles.
These are real early Virginias.

 

[George]

Fred Miller "Feather Gun Stock" with a Rayl Feathergun barrel in .54 Straight Rifle!

Do you mean a rifle with straight rifling? If so, I'd be interested to hear why you would choose that for a rifle. There are references to the use of straight rifling for both ball and shot in the early literature, but all the references I have to straight rifling seems to indicate the old ones were discarding that idea by late 18th century, for both ball and shot.

Spence

 

[54ball]

Spence here is a short article by Gary Brumfield. Why a straight rifle

Yes, it has grooves but they are cut straight. In theory it should shoot ball better than a loosely loaded Smoothbore and yet can make a good shotgun too.

I have read about American Rifles having straight rifling but I can't remember which particular Rifles they were.....they all run together at times.
The concept is period.

Since rifling a barrel is so labor intensive and the fact that it takes about the same work to cut a straight rifle as it does a spiral one...and the fact that more and more barrels were ready made by specialized barrel makers....later factories....may be why straight rifles faded.

 

[hanshi]

Yes, in RCA there are many photos of "smoothrifles" that were built by smiths who are usually thought of as "rifle makers". And most of them are beautiful, as well.

 

[SgtErv]

Haha...and that Virginia smooth rifle was 28 guage :redface:

 

[George]

Brumfield tells a good tale if you accept his premise. I have never been a believer in the knuckleball theory of ballistics, so I'm not convinced.

The old boys had a lot of time and experience with straight rifling, and they gave up on it for both ball and shot. I think they got it right.

Spence

 

[rich pierce]

I have a 1770s iron mounted Germanic smooth rifle with straight rifling. The barrel is octagon full length but quite thin walled at the muzzle. It was modified to percussion here using the drum system. It’s a very light gun about 20 bore. I am guessing boar gun.