Tang Sights on a GPR

Hi all,

I am considering working on a GPR kit as a summer project. My thought was (and others have done this, but I haven't been able to find the site on the internet since I saw it) to build the GPR as a custom Northern civilian Target Rifle from the Civil War period- a gun exclusively for long range work. As part of this, I was thinking of installing a tang-mounted (similar to a Vernier would be the intent) sight and a globe front sight as were used on some of these guns. Knowing the GPR's tang is seperate from the barrel as virtue of the hooked breech, is this a feasible arrangement, or am I going to have problems with wandering zero because of it? Maybe the solution would be to solder/weld the tang to the barrel? Or, in a non-PC/HC fashion, JB weld?

What do you guys think? Anyone done this before?

Thanks in advance,

-Chris Thulien

I haven't tried your "game" with the GPR, but I bet mine would do just fine. I was careful about bedding the tang and barrel, and I'm yet to see the slightest shift in POI that I can detect in about 5 years of steady use. Loose and sloppy bedding and inletting? Yeah, I'd expect POI issues.

Misplaced Rebel said:

Hi all,

I am considering working on a GPR kit as a summer project. My thought was (and others have done this, but I haven't been able to find the site on the internet since I saw it) to build the GPR as a custom Northern civilian Target Rifle from the Civil War period- a gun exclusively for long range work. As part of this, I was thinking of installing a tang-mounted (similar to a Vernier would be the intent) sight and a globe front sight as were used on some of these guns. Knowing the GPR's tang is seperate from the barrel as virtue of the hooked breech, is this a feasible arrangement, or am I going to have problems with wandering zero because of it? Maybe the solution would be to solder/weld the tang to the barrel? Or, in a non-PC/HC fashion, JB weld?

What do you guys think? Anyone done this before?

Thanks in advance,

-Chris Thulien

Click to expand...

These are probably not quite what you had in mind. These are Hot Rod Renegades and Hot Rod Hawkens. They have a hooked breach and they shoot great out to 300 yards. I haven't shot them farther but I don't see why I couldn't. I get sub 2" groups at 100 yards and about 5" groups at 300 on good days :grin: . So the Hooked breach is not a problem. I have glass bedded one renegade that had some wiggle but most don't. I am using the Lyman 57 SML peeps, and either the Lee Shavers globe sight or the Lyman 17 AML with lee Shavers BPCR inserts. I am curious what bullets your planning to use? I paper patch all my bullets. I have two bullets I mainly use now. The Lee C-501-440-RF for the 50 cal. For my Hot Rod Hawken 45 I use a RCBS 11mm mould. Ron

Misplaced Rebel said:

, or am I going to have problems with wandering zero because of it?

Click to expand...

Not really, as BB mentioned it's all about the fit and bedding.
Repeatable accuracy with a hooked breech is entirely possible with little complication. A properly mounted Vernier to any stock/barrel combination is what it is, they all require some adjustment to a given ranged target for compitition accuracy.

The actual distance of the compitition, barrel twist and projectile would be the things I'd consider first.

What are you looking at? 200-400? Further? What size target?

Well, I'm not really planning on using it for a competition, per say. I might set up an NSSA reg. 100 yard target (has an overall diameter of about 1'9", with a 3" X-ring I think ) at 300-500 yards. I don't have any REALLY long range locations available to me where I live, and no private property to shoot on...

This gun would just be a project that I would eventually like to use as a teaching tool (but more importantly as a FUN GUN)- as I said, it would be built as a PC target rifle from the North that possibly would have been used as a 'sharpshooter' rifle by the appropriate units.

As far as bullets go, I hadn't given much thought to loads. I would be using the .50cal version to get some extra weight on the barrel and for better ballistic properties. Most of the period rifles were sub-.50 cal, but .50 cals were used. All I know is the GPR is an exceptionally accurate platform, and assuming my finances pan out well, I'd like to start with it.

Thanks again,

-Chris

Why not just get a whitworth? Ron

Ron- I'd love a Whitworth! I've often contemplated it, but like I said, my finances are very tight right now (I am in college) and the GPR is by far a more economical platform to start with. I think fair market value for a Parker-Hale or Euroarms Whitworth is anywhere from $1000 to $1500 dollars now :cursing: , depending on the condition. A Lyman GPR, outfitted as I described, might be anywhere from $500 to $700 dollars, depending on the costs of the sights and the kit.

Also, according to my perusings (read: informal research) the Whitworths were not the most common of guns, and Northern sharpshooters more commonly utilized civilian target rifles, if not exclusively so.

Lastly, I like the looks of the old civvy target rifles more than the Whitworth. Not only that, the guy who supplies the bullets I use in my Model 1855 rifle-musket doesn't cast suitable rounds for the Whitworth.

I understand why you asked, and I've often aksed the same questions myself. Unfortunately, I can't afford a Whitworth right now. Besides, I can tinker more with the GPR, and I LOVE to tinker. :grin:

Thanks,

-Chris

As you know the reason I asked was the most accurate replica of a Civil war sharp shooter would be the Whitworth but it would be a southern rifle. I can understand the financial thing. BUT it sounds like your getting into the HC or PC end of muzzleloading. The only way to get it right is to do it right. Ron

Ron-

As a reenactor, I completely understand what you mean! Normally, I do a Confederate impression- an Irish immigrant serving with 'Stonewall' Jackson out in the East. That's where my M1855 RM gets the most use. I also shoot with the ACWSA. In a sense, I'm already knee-deep in the PC/HC quagmire...
What you say about the Whitworth is true- for sure, it is the most accurate repro of a military 'sharpshooting' rifle on the market. But even it has its faults- namely, most (and I think Paul- the guy who shoots Enfields and such from Britain- knows more about it than I do) of the Confederate Whitworths were two-banded, uncheckered guns. The model offered by PH and Euroarms is the type more commonly used in a Civilian capacity, but they were so few and far between that it makes it hard to justify one.
On the other hand, custom civilian guns were more common in the North, and saw more usage as specialized 'sharpshooting weapons'. The website that enspired this entire project is here:

Civil War target rifles used for sharpshooting

It shows mostly 'scoped' examples, but a scope could be just as easily replaced with peep or ladder sights, like I was planning to use. The GPR is a great base for this project because of the heavy barrel, set triggers, and appropriate stock shape for a 'light' target rifle.
Like I said, this would be a project. There would be some modifications involved in making the GPR suitable and accurate for this role. Also, there's a guy posting about 'Dimick' target rifles, which were used by an IL sharpshooter Regiment during the war. Their site is here (the reenacting group that portrays them):

Dimick target rifles in the 66th IL

This group uses customized GPRs because they are close in appearance to the Dimick guns and their variants.

Sorry for the long post.

Thanks for everyones responses! I appreciate them all!

Cheers,

-Chris

Chris it appears you have done a lot of research I am researching the H.E. Dimick rifle the is a lot of reference to the adjustable rear sight I had also been told Dimick used a Lawrence Patent Sight. If you have or know of any photo's of a Dimick rilfle with adjustable sites I would appreciate seeing them thanks