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help with Italian proof marks

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bigboom

32 Cal.
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I picked up an Italian made kentucky style .45 cal percussion cap rifle off craigslist for $100. I know a little about it, but have a proof I can not, and have not identify. It is a XXVI, 1970 with the star with the lands and groves, and a PN under it. It has Italy stamped on it. But it has a proof that is like none on the proof sticky. I want to know who made it. I will get a picture up tomorrow. Thanks for any info.
 
BibBoom:

As you say, the XXVI represents 1970.

The star surrounded by rifling grooves with the PN under it is the first black powder proof for Gardone and Brescia, Italy.

The star surrounded by rifling grooves over a coat of arms is the other Italian proof mark.

Additional marks are not proof marks but are there to indicate the manufacturer.

Although you apparently have found our reference information about Italian marks, here is a link for those who may be interested. http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/236956/

Over the years there have been many different Italian firms who made reproduction muzzleloaders and pistols and many of them used unique marks who's meanings have been lost over the years.
Many of these companies are no longer in business, having either folded or been assimilated by one of the larger remaining companies.
If you can post a good photo of the mark you may luck out and one of us will recognize it. :)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I will get a picture up today. I have it at work in my tool box, so I can work on it when it get slow. I am going to clean all the brass, and tru-oil the stock. By the way, it is a full length stock, but in 2 peices. 35 and 1/4" long barrel.
 
IMAG0056.jpg

Best I could get from my phone.
 
IMAG0056.jpg


Looks like a manufacturing companies logo but I have no idea at all who it could be.

Maybe someone else will know.
 
I am about to test it out. As long as it shoots I guess I can live with a unknown brand. Did I do good at $100?
 
If you are happy with it you did good. If you are not happy you did bad! What we think is not important it was your money! :idunno:
 
It shoots! I think I did good. It only fires on the second hammer drop, and it shoots to the right 4". I need a new rear sight, and hammer spring work, but shoots. It will be good as a gun I can use to trade for another. It looks a lot better cleaned up now.
 
The not firing until the second hammer drop may not be due to the mainspring.

A weak mainspring will often allow the hammer to blow back to half cock when the gun is fired.
If your hammer did not do this then you should look at other things that could cause it.

In order to fire reliably the priming compound must be sitting right against the end of the nipple.

If the nipple is too large for the caps your using the tapered body of the nipple will hold the priming compound above the end of the nipple.
Then, when the hammer falls it seats the cap as it should be. The next hammer blow fires the gun so it seems like the mainspring is too weak when in fact the nipple was at fault.

Many times, especially with older guns which have had previous owners dry fire them, the end of the nipple will be mushroomed.
This can easily keep a proper fitting cap from seating like it should.

Look at the top of the nipple. If it looks like it is mushroomed at all, or if it looks like it is slightly swollen from repeted dry firing all you need to fix it is a new nipple or a small flat file.

With poor fitting caps/nipples I usually chuck the nipple in a electric drill locating the chuck jaws on the body of the nipple (not the threads).

Then, with the drill on my left, pointed towards my right side I start the drill slowly and rest a flat file against the cone of the nipple using the nipples cone angle to align the file.

With the drill running, a few slow forward strokes of the file will remove a few thousandths of an inch worth of material.
I then try the cap. If it fully seats, I'm done.
If it still seems to be hanging up I repeat the filing.

Give it a try before trying to find a new mainspring. :)
 
Not firing on the fist hammer drop can be caused by using the wrong cap also. Are you using #11 caps or #10. As Zonie says , it doesn't take much to set off a cap.
 
I am using #11 caps, and the nipple is worn a bit, but not real bad. I bought 2 new ones to put in just in case. I will try to see if the cap/nipple is the problem, and may do some filing. Thanks for the advice. :thumbsup:
 
I have one just like it. It is the first ML I ever owned. I bought it during the summer of 1972 when I was 15 years old. I sold it to my brother 20 years ago, but recently reaquired it from my Nephew. :grin: I hope to go launch some bullets with it soon to see if it will still shoot.
 
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