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1:48 Twist
- Thread starter PreserveFreedom
- Start date
Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:
With peep sights, a bench, and the eyes of a 20yr old thats had 10yrs training.
My point is to keep it real for new ml prb shooters that pick up a TC hawkin or other with open sights.
Just randomly tossing out that these guns should shoot 2" groups or your a failure is not a point that'll keep folks in the game.
4-5" is very good with 6" average and a well trained good shooter getting 3".
2" with TC or you got a problem,,fooey!
I know full well what these are capable of, I've placed in plenty of matches across the state with Renegades and even Jukars.
It just galls me when people streatch the truth to blindly prove a point.
All Hail T/C,, :bow:
My point is to keep it real for new ml prb shooters that pick up a TC hawkin or other with open sights.
Just randomly tossing out that these guns should shoot 2" groups or your a failure is not a point that'll keep folks in the game.
4-5" is very good with 6" average and a well trained good shooter getting 3".
2" with TC or you got a problem,,fooey!
I know full well what these are capable of, I've placed in plenty of matches across the state with Renegades and even Jukars.
It just galls me when people streatch the truth to blindly prove a point.
All Hail T/C,, :bow:
roundball said:
Val Forgett imported a bunch of rifles such as the 1803 Harpers Ferry copies that had 58 caliber barrels with 3 groove minie ball rifling. I can't recall the twist right now. In any case Val Forgett was enamored with the Minie ball and made a hunting style rifle for it and even a pistol. The old ads I found don't list a twist.
The 48 twist shallow groove TCs had some problems as well. But nobody I associated with at the time owned one so all I know is what I heard and read. Its possible that some barrels slipped out that were a little too shallow since not everyone had problems.
In some cases even a deep groove barrel like a Douglas will blow patches but there are variables. I had a batch of heavy ticking a few years back that produced a rash of blown patches. Some even on fire. But I have never had that problem before or since. So maybe the cotton was rotten :grin:
When using the dried water soluble oil patch lube my 70 twist 50 will blow patches unless I put a patch over the powder ?? Never blows a patch with a lubricated patch, tallow or animal oil.
Dan
paulvallandigham
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I agree. The big Bead front sights on many of these "hawken" style "Mountain rifles" covers either 6" or 8" at 100 yards. You are not going to tell me the average shooter is going to shoot 5 or 10-shot groups at 100 yds., even off a bench rest, into a 2" group, using those factory iron sights.
I will concede that the Barrel MAY BE capable of that kind of accuracy, FROM A MACHINE REST, or in the hands of an experience Target shooting a scope sight. He might be able to do it using a tang Peep Sight, and a Globe Front sight.
I will concede that the Barrel MAY BE capable of that kind of accuracy, FROM A MACHINE REST, or in the hands of an experience Target shooting a scope sight. He might be able to do it using a tang Peep Sight, and a Globe Front sight.
roundball said:
Short Arm said:
I'm sure you will do fine. An elk is larger than an 'X'. :v
Well you see TC is not on my radar screen nor would I recommend anyone buy a used ML from a pawn shop or such to many have been pitted by the use of perchlorate powders.
There are other reasons as well.
Its only considered a traditional ML now because it and its ilk are more traditional than an inline.
It was not considered traditional by people who were using traditional MLs when it hit the market.
Its a ML intended to sell to the mass market i.e. modern rifle shooters. It shows most graphically in the "model 70" stock design. It had to look familiar to the buyers at the local Wal-Mart or the designer didn't know any better. Take your choice.
Dan
There are other reasons as well.
Its only considered a traditional ML now because it and its ilk are more traditional than an inline.
It was not considered traditional by people who were using traditional MLs when it hit the market.
Its a ML intended to sell to the mass market i.e. modern rifle shooters. It shows most graphically in the "model 70" stock design. It had to look familiar to the buyers at the local Wal-Mart or the designer didn't know any better. Take your choice.
Dan
And T/C Arms deserves major, major recognition and applause for doing exactly what they did. They were the main galvanizing force that put the concept of traditionally oriented sidelocks in the hands of untold numbers of hunters nation wide for over 40 years now...nobody else is even close to the same rung on the ladder.
Manufacturing high volumes of decent quality affordable sidelocks with a lifetime warranty resulted in a major resurrgence of muzzleloading interest across the whole country on a large scale. Other companies got on the band wagon and started coyping T/C's lead with offerings from CVA, Traditions, Lyman, etc, etc.
And we know that many who developed an initial interest in muzzleloading that way went on deeper into black powder shooting, hunting, etc...with their roots usually traceable back to a T/C start.
T/C deserves big time acknowledgement for their excellent contribution to this hobby...
:hatsoff:
Manufacturing high volumes of decent quality affordable sidelocks with a lifetime warranty resulted in a major resurrgence of muzzleloading interest across the whole country on a large scale. Other companies got on the band wagon and started coyping T/C's lead with offerings from CVA, Traditions, Lyman, etc, etc.
And we know that many who developed an initial interest in muzzleloading that way went on deeper into black powder shooting, hunting, etc...with their roots usually traceable back to a T/C start.
T/C deserves big time acknowledgement for their excellent contribution to this hobby...
:hatsoff:
Rat Trapper
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roundball said:
Roundball is correct! Unlike some here who seem determined to promote wimp loads, I normally run heavy loads and find the 1-48 works very well with both PRB or concial. Paul v is also correct that the conical needs to be short as the 1-48 is not designed for long bullets.
longrifle346
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Whew! My findings are only those of a little fish in this pond and I can only speak from a layman's point of view. But some of you were once laymen....:bow: :wink:
A TC Hawken kit(were they not 1:48 twist barrel back then as well?) got me started on this journey almost 40 years ago. It was a kit that I liked the looks of, could afford, and it fired as reliably as I could make any other with the limited information available to me at the time. I could pretty much shoot whatever bullet/roundball that fit and was available for it locally and I didn't lose any fingers. Even so it would let me hit a bullseye occasionally and a deer or hog very consistently. Very "user friendly", in today's terms, for it's time....
Fast forward almost 40 years. I'd been out of BP for some time while raising a family, paying bills, and pursuing less labor-intensive hunting methods. And then again came the urge to return to a less hectic time and closer hunting pursuits. The first vehicle I reached for to take me back to those days was a TC in 1:48. I can grab any one of the ones I own now, walk out back to the range, and not cry if I happen to ding it and I'll generally embarrass scoffers and custom bullies on the range just as much or more than they embarrass me at 100 yards and in. There are several TCs I've put together from parts and pieces on the rack over there now and every one of them shoots just as good as I do. Still very user friendly after all these years. Hard for us layman to knock that kind of positive experience....
Y'all carry on now....
A TC Hawken kit(were they not 1:48 twist barrel back then as well?) got me started on this journey almost 40 years ago. It was a kit that I liked the looks of, could afford, and it fired as reliably as I could make any other with the limited information available to me at the time. I could pretty much shoot whatever bullet/roundball that fit and was available for it locally and I didn't lose any fingers. Even so it would let me hit a bullseye occasionally and a deer or hog very consistently. Very "user friendly", in today's terms, for it's time....
Fast forward almost 40 years. I'd been out of BP for some time while raising a family, paying bills, and pursuing less labor-intensive hunting methods. And then again came the urge to return to a less hectic time and closer hunting pursuits. The first vehicle I reached for to take me back to those days was a TC in 1:48. I can grab any one of the ones I own now, walk out back to the range, and not cry if I happen to ding it and I'll generally embarrass scoffers and custom bullies on the range just as much or more than they embarrass me at 100 yards and in. There are several TCs I've put together from parts and pieces on the rack over there now and every one of them shoots just as good as I do. Still very user friendly after all these years. Hard for us layman to knock that kind of positive experience....
Y'all carry on now....
Well my "hail" to TC was kinda sarcasim because some do seem to think they are the Alpha and Omega.
Your right, they aren't like anything but a TC,,
,but,,
Roundball is right too, they have been the bread an butter of Trad shooting techniques for a long time and still make a great entry level gun for alot of folks.
They can find out if it's something they like or not. Then make a move in any direction they want, beit hang the thing on the wall or hand it to nephew Tim when you get a custom.
One way or another theres alot of guy's that shoot'm.
(and I kinda like that, most are easy to out-shoot!)
Your right, they aren't like anything but a TC,,
,but,,
Roundball is right too, they have been the bread an butter of Trad shooting techniques for a long time and still make a great entry level gun for alot of folks.
They can find out if it's something they like or not. Then make a move in any direction they want, beit hang the thing on the wall or hand it to nephew Tim when you get a custom.
One way or another theres alot of guy's that shoot'm.
(and I kinda like that, most are easy to out-shoot!)
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You know, sometimes it seems that what ever the person wanted is what ends up working.
