Dangerous Custom Build

The story behind this is very long. I'll try to be brief. Several years ago I contracted with a builder to build two custom flintlock rifles. One was to be a retirement gift to myself, the second was a surprise gift for my brother. After many delays on the part of the builder, and promises of completion, the rifles were finally delivered this past February.

Upon opening the rifle crate I thought the builder might have sent rifles meant for another customer. The rifles were clearly not what I had contracted for or agreed to in any way. Both rifles were supposed to be identical, a matched pair if you will. They were not. I decided to keep my mouth shut for the moment because my brother was so excited. We had a house full of people to witness the surprise for him.

Inspecting the rifles, I found the bore on my rifle plugged in a couple of spots. We cleared the barrel and found what looked like plant material and small pieces of fabric that had been left inside. There were approximately fourteen rough spots or gouges in the bore from the muzzle to the breech. We took photographs of the damaged bore as well as many other glaring mistakes and of shoddy workmanship on both rifles.

I contacted the builder and sent him the photos. His reply was my "disappointment" is "noted". He would not address the issues I had outlined, but did offer to take the rifles back and refund my money if and when he sold the rifles. One rifle was completely unserviceable. The second rifle was questionable. We kept the rifles.

I contacted the maker of the barrels, John Getz. He was interested in the heavily damaged barrel after I told him what happened. I sent the barrel to him for his inspection and opinion. He also had his father look at the barrel and offer an opinion. The barrel was damaged by the builder during the browning process. The bore had filled with the browning solution. After the browning process, the solution was not neutralized or cleaned from the bore. The inside of the barrel had been eaten away in many spots almost the entire length of the barrel. Getz told me the barrel could not be salvaged. This barrel had never been fired. When Getz returns the damaged barrel to me, my brother and I intend to cut the barrel in half lengthwise to expose the amount of damage.

My brother's rifle appeared to be safe. Both of us are lifelong shooters. My brother is a competative shooter and I have extensive firearms experience due to my profession ( I am now retired ).

My brother test fired his rifle and found it to function. On Sunday, the 10 of July, we went to the range together for an afternoon of shooting. After only a few rounds, my brother's rifle had a near-catastrophic failure. The rifle had approx only fifty rounds through it. He was shooting 70 grs FFFG. The barrel is .50 cal.

We were standing on the firing line. My brother was to my left, twenty feet away from me. I watched as he touched off his shot. The sound was odd and the recoil twisted and rolled into his chest and face. He reloaded for another shot and stepped to the line to fire. Nothing happened. He inspected the rifle and found the vent liner had blown out. We looked for the liner thinking it had just fallen out of the barrel. My nephew who was there with us found the vent liner very far away from where my brother stood to shoot.

We reconstructed our positions when the shot had been fired, all based on our shoe prints in the dust. There were only four shooters at the range at that time, all members of our family. We determined the vent liner missed hitting me in the head by a scant six inches, passing over my right shoulder. It also missed the head of another shooter who was seated between my brother and I when the liner failed. I was twenty feet away from my brother. The liner flew a total of thirty-six feet before it struck a tree and bounced back six feet toward me. We marked the tree and measured everything with a tape measure. There was no guessing here. That ended our day at the range.

That night at my brother's house, we took apart the rifle and cleaned it, taking photographs all along. We found the vent hole for the liner had clearly been drilled out of round and when the vent liner hole was initially drilled, the bit penetrated the surface of the opposite wall of the bore. The threads for the liner were only cut into less than half of the side of the vent hole. There was evidence the liner struck the outside edge of the powder trough of the lock when it failed. This caused the liner to deflect slightly and miss hitting me.

We have photos and will post them for others to gain some information and insight. Hopefully I would ultimately like to warn away any potential customers from this shoddy gunbuilder. I believe he is unethical and a fraud who produces inferior and dangerous products. From a pure safety standpoint, I believe this post is necessary. :cursing: :cursing: :cursing: :cursing: :cursing:

Here are some of the pictures I mentioned in my previous post. Rifle #1 has damaged barrel. We did fire rifle #2 which we thought was the better of the two. Rifle #1 was never fired.

Material removed from barrel of "new" rifle (rifle #1):


Some of the patches used in cleaning "new" barrel (rifle #1) of debris shown above:


Gouges in bore of "new" barrel (rifle #1):


Uncleaned lock mortice area (rifle #2):


Out-of-round hole for vent liner which blew out after only 50 rounds fired (rifle #2):


Recovered vent liner (rifle #2):


Vent liner with ding at 6 o'clock position where it may have struck end of flashpan (rifle #2):


I can post more pictures if anyone is interested.

Couple things,

This is why I learned to build the rifles I shoot, I could'nt afford to pay for the builders that I trust and respect.

You cannot make a post such as this without being prepared to give up the offending builder, at least thats the way I see it.

ApprenticeBuilder said:

You cannot make a post such as this without being prepared to give up the offending builder, at least thats the way I see it.

Click to expand...

I agree. Without the builders name, this info is of little use.

I will attempt to put up a photo with the builder's name engraved on the barrel, but not tonight... its getting late, and my helper has gone to bed.

I will say this, the builder does post on this site occasionally. I have given a review of his work in the product review/ gunbuilders section.

He signed the barrel?? Like he's proud of the work? :shake: A law suit should be in order for non fulfillment of contract. At minimum he should replace the barrels provided that the other work is up to snuff. I'd be after getting a full refund and returning the junk. Those long curly fibers look like the rusted off remains of the rifling.

:shocked2: That's down rite scary!! Although we all suffer personal and/or business traumas, it is inexcusable to endanger another's life or well being because of it. In my opinion it is not only a loss of character , it is criminal. The offender should be held accountable. Such a matter should be resolved both privately and publicly..... Thanks for posting and best of luck.

I'd like to know the name and address of the ripoff artist too!

I'd also demand 100% of my money back, with no conditions!

Maybe the builder, since he is a member here, could explain his side ...

IMO, the degree and magnitude of the junk workmanship...particularly that which created very unsafe conditions...trancends any normal courtesy of not publicizing it.

Absolutely, we need to know the name of the builder. As long as you stick with facts you have nothing to fear in the way of libel or slander retaliation.
I'm waiting on a gun now from a builder with an inconsistent reputation and you have me really concerned. :shocked2:

Thank you for posting this. Workmanship like this is something everyone needs to be aware of. By going to your product review I was able to determine who the builder was but I do hope you will post his name here too. The only thing that might save his reputation would be for him to post here with an explination for his actions and not a politician's answer either.
It is fortunate that no one was injured! It would seem that almost of the energy of the charge went to blowing out the vent liner. Did you note where the ball went?

DoubleDeuceI,
The story is amazing but the backup photos are even more amazing. IMO you should post the "builder's" name so that the fraternity can be made fully aware and protect themselves from such flagrant, and dangerous, miscarriages of workmanship. Secondly, I would hope that the "builder" who signed the pieces would address you directly regarding the problems and/or speak up on his own behalf. If neither of the preceding are forethcoming, I would be considering legal action in this case.
Mark

Scary stuff. :shocked2:

Save those photos and all paperwork, start collecting witness statements. Unless I'm wrong, it doesn't sound like the builder is going to stand behind his "work."

Double's options are really limited. We all know the score and what should be done in the real world but in court world it's a whole different matter.

In court world he commissioned two pieces of "art". Said "art" was delivered. As far as shooting he done so at his own risk. The bottom line is in my opinion DoubleDeuce1 stands a chance of losing even more money and time by pursuing this legally. Not to mention the emotional strain that goes along with this.

DoubleDuece1 I think your best option is to do just what you have done by sharing this. Sadly I think trying to recoup your investment will wind up being folly.

As far as trying to salvage some of this, I would order new barrels from Getz, have them installed properly with drilled vents for piece of mind and sell or keep the rifles. That way at least you will come out of this with something.

That is just plain piss poor workmanship and to put that kind of stuff out there is criminal negligance. What would happen if someone was hurt or worse. It would appear that you have legal grounds in wanting 100% repayment of all funds and he should close up his buisness and take down his shingle as a gun builder if that is the kind of work he puts out there.

Guys, read his posts, Double Duece did reveal the builder in the custom gun builders review section.

Wow! I did not see that coming. Very surprised to learn who the builder in question is. :shocked2:

Sure he has legal grounds but at what risk to him. There is a very good possibility that he would lose in court and now he is stuck with the rifles, owes attorneys fees, owes court costs and is out of all that time and emotional effort.

Again, I think the safest thing for DoubleDuece1 to do is have the rifles fixed by someone competent and bail out of this situation.

will someone post a link to the review I cant seem to get there or just TELL US WHO IT WAS
Thanks
Deutsch