Hawken Choice

hickok45 · Jul 29, 2011

I'm missing having a Hawken around; my first muzzle loading rifle was a T/C Hawken .50 back in the '70s. I bought Lyman Great Plains Rifle at about the same time. Both were fun.

I later switched out to a .58 Green Mountain barrel on a .54 T/C and had some fun with bigger lead, although I recall having problems hitting well with it.

My 1858 Enfield and Minie bullet has absolutely spoiled me for ease of loading, ease of shooting well, and fun. I don't necessarily look forward to the loading of tightly patched balls again, but I just miss having a nice Hawken. Lost my last one in a robbery many years ago.

Anyway, I'm thinking I'd like a nice Hawken, probably in .54, possibly even in .58, although I'm not sure that's the best idea.
I like the Lyman over the T/C, but I'm wondering what the opinion is on custom gun makers. Is there anybody out there making really nice Hawken rifles that would not be all that much more than a Lyman?
I know that sometimes a couple hundred bucks will put you into a totally different category with firearms, but then sometimes it takes twice or three times the money. Just wondering if there's anybody you guys would recommend if I decided I was willing to drop as much as 1K or more on a rifle? I sure do love my Enfield, though.

Thanks
Hickok45

Otter · Jul 29, 2011

Hickok said:
Is there anybody out there making really nice Hawken rifles that would not be all that much more than a Lyman?

In a word . . . nope. The GPR is, at least IMHO, the closest you can get to a "real" Hawken for a production rifle at a relatively decent price. Any custom Hawken built by a reputable and qualified builder for you would probably be in the 3X or more price range of the GPR. You can get a GPR kit and modify it during the build if PC is somewhat important to you, or you can buy a Hawken kit and DIY one. You might be able to find a used one at TOTW for less but don't hold your breath.

BrownBear · Jul 29, 2011

That's pretty much it. If you want to pop into the low $1k territory, there are a couple of different dandies from Pedersoli in the Cabelas Bargain Cave, but their Bargain Cave is a shadow of it's former self in terms of savings.

Jump up to the middle $1k range and October Country is now listing a Hawken that really has my attention. Yehaw.

One thing to know when you move out of the "Hawken" territory from TC/Lyman and closer to "real" Hawken territory, the weight goes way up. I have a 58 cal Hawken from GRRW that comes awful close to the real deal. And it pops the scale a little over 12 pounds. The real deals were built for guys that mostly straddled horses all day, and weight for accuracy didn't translate into weight on the shoulder.

Vaino · Jul 29, 2011

The last "Hawken" I built for a customer was a .54 cal. Stith S. Hawken parts set w/ a 1" to 7/8" tapered 36" bbl....very light and well balanced. Cost...$2100. The component cost was $900 w/ premium wood so my labor cost was $1200 which doesn't allow for any "dawdling".....Fred

Jim Fitzgibbon · Jul 29, 2011

Fred about how many hours you suppose you put
in to a rifle as that????

Fly :idunno:

hickok45 · Jul 29, 2011

Yeah, October Country does have a couple of good-looking rifles. You are right.

Hickok45

ebiggs1 · Jul 29, 2011

If it's not a shooter, the Lyman GPR in 54 is not only the correct answer, it is the only answer.
Your post indicates to me that it won't see much action, so why spend more? Matter of fact, they shoot right along with anybodies gun!
Personally if I were in the $1000, just a little plus money, I would get the Perdersoli

Dphar · Jul 29, 2011

Hickok said:
I'm missing having a Hawken around; my first muzzle loading rifle was a T/C Hawken .50 back in the '70s. I bought Lyman Great Plains Rifle at about the same time. Both were fun.

I later switched out to a .58 Green Mountain barrel on a .54 T/C and had some fun with bigger lead, although I recall having problems hitting well with it.

My 1858 Enfield and Minie bullet has absolutely spoiled me for ease of loading, ease of shooting well, and fun. I don't necessarily look forward to the loading of tightly patched balls again, but I just miss having a nice Hawken. Lost my last one in a robbery many years ago.

Anyway, I'm thinking I'd like a nice Hawken, probably in .54, possibly even in .58, although I'm not sure that's the best idea.
I like the Lyman over the T/C, but I'm wondering what the opinion is on custom gun makers. Is there anybody out there making really nice Hawken rifles that would not be all that much more than a Lyman?
I know that sometimes a couple hundred bucks will put you into a totally different category with firearms, but then sometimes it takes twice or three times the money. Just wondering if there's anybody you guys would recommend if I decided I was willing to drop as much as 1K or more on a rifle? I sure do love my Enfield, though.

Thanks
Hickok45

First the TC and Lyman are not Hawkens.
Second its impossible to buy a good set of parts for what the factory mades go for.
So basically wanting someone to make a rifle for a similar price is asking them to PAY YOU to make you a rifle.

Dan

ebiggs1 · Jul 29, 2011

You decide? :hmm:

Amikee · Jul 30, 2011

Hello mr Hickock

I love your gun videos on YouTube if that is you. I have Investarms Hawken .50 cal. I got it for about 300 shot once from what they told me. So 99.999% new. 1:48 twist. 60gr pyrodex rs, 010 prelubed Cabelas patch, hornady round ball=1" groups at 25 yards. Absolutely love it. Oh, I use Remington #11 caps. Didn't need to swipe until like 7th shot. Actually I did it because I read here that it is better to give swipe. I used windex on patch for that. No misfires. No problems. At least not yet. Good luck sir. Michal

hickok45 · Jul 30, 2011

Thanks, yep, I'm the YouTube guy. I see we have lots of "experts" on this site, just as on other forums, some more helpful and friendly than others, but lots of experts.

Thanks,
Hickok45

Vaino · Jul 30, 2011

My time on this Stith Hawken was 80 hrs but I'm not doing this for a living.....Fred

Amikee · Jul 31, 2011

Oh man. She is gorgeus! Respect :bow: Could you pm me with the building price of such gun and Your labor? I might have some funds coiming in :grin:

Jim Fitzgibbon · Jul 31, 2011

flehto I can truely beleave that much time in
such a rifle.Buddy you buld one fine looking rifle.

Fly :bow:

tg · Jul 31, 2011

With some range time you might be surprise at the accuracy you can get with a load that does not have to be hammered down, many do quite well with a stiff thumb started load.

Tony Logan · Jul 31, 2011

Nice looking gun. I really like everything about it, especially the left handed lock.

RUSELLLEEDORAN · Aug 1, 2011

If you haven't made up your mind yet, and if you'd consider going up from the Lyman option, I'd like to let you know that Dixie has their Pedersoli .54 Rocky Mtn Hawken with maple stock on sale from $1025 down to $925. Someone else had also recently recommended Pedersoli as a good option for the higher end of your dollar search. I just noticed it when I placed a book order.

Fuzzy

BrownBear · Aug 1, 2011

Fuzzy Sights said:
If you haven't made up your mind yet, and if you'd consider going up from the Lyman option, I'd like to let you know that Dixie has their Pedersoli .54 Rocky Mtn Hawken with maple stock on sale from $1025 down to $925. Someone else had also recently recommended Pedersoli as a good option for the higher end of your dollar search. I just noticed it when I placed a book order.

Fuzzy

That might or might not have been me. But for certain, I was really impressed with the build quality and handling of one I looked at recently. Even with too many other muzzleloaders in the rack right now, I was tempted to take it home with me and get rid of some others to compensate.

tg · Aug 1, 2011

If you are going to drop close to a grand I would take a look at the dometic vendors like TVM. I think they have a halfstock like a Leman I think, you will get a lot more for your money than with an import, many of the various imports have really priced them selves way past their value IMHO if you look at what many call the semi- custom domestic builders, they often use Siler locks and good top name barrels, when they were half the price of a "homemade" gun it was tempting, now I see no question in the way to go myself.

BrownBear · Aug 1, 2011

Fuzzy Sights said:
If you haven't made up your mind yet, and if you'd consider going up from the Lyman option, I'd like to let you know that Dixie has their Pedersoli .54 Rocky Mtn Hawken with maple stock on sale from $1025 down to $925. Someone else had also recently recommended Pedersoli as a good option for the higher end of your dollar search. I just noticed it when I placed a book order.

Fuzzy

One important point comes up when you're slapping buxx. If you haven't handled a gun before buying, you're getting a pig in a poke. I wouldn't have been interested in the Pedersoli if I hadn't been able to pick it up and shoulder it. The LOP and balance were really right for me in 54 cal. Reading #'s and listening to other folks? Nah. I'd pass, whether Pedersoli, TVM or October Country.

I wouldn't spend a cent on anything approaching $1k until you get to look through the sights. If that's not possible, I'd save your buxx till the opportunity arose, meanwhile spending $400 or less for something used just to get you shooting.

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