I have screwed wads (plastic and fiber) to balls and slugs and it does kinder work. Not allways but sometimes!
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tails on balls
- Thread starter Rifleman1776
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Well there is a factory loaded shotshell version. The original Brenneke slug load had it's thick felt filler wad attached with a screw and they were at one time the premier slug for accuracy from smoothbore guns, for all I know they may still be so. I do know they shoot very nice groups at 50 yards from my 16 gage breechloader.
Not exactly the same as attaching a tail to a roundball but pretty much the same principle.
Why not? :idunno:
Not exactly the same as attaching a tail to a roundball but pretty much the same principle.
Why not? :idunno:
Steve Tobler
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Matchlock72 said:
Interesting.
Have you designed your load yet ?
I am interested in how you will "position" the screw between the powder & RB.
In my original post, I said:
I have a dear friend who is a life long ml'er and builder. He is as knowledgable on ml matters as anyone. Except, IMHO, he has a major flaw in his shooting theories. He believes firmly, that if you have a bent barrel, when the ball leaves the muzzle it will continue it's flight in a curve. The 'tail' however will make it fly true and straight. Being an engineer type, he can talk in real mathematicals and geek speek to "prove" his theory is correct. Me, being just plain and ordinary without the benefit of high level education thinks once the ball leaves the muzzle it travels straight (excepting for outside forces like wind and gravity). Might not go where you want it to but it will travel straight. And as for the "tail" thing, I still have the jury out on whether there is any benefit to it.
Only CS sorta touched on this comment. I was hoping to start a real war with that remark.
I have a dear friend who is a life long ml'er and builder. He is as knowledgable on ml matters as anyone. Except, IMHO, he has a major flaw in his shooting theories. He believes firmly, that if you have a bent barrel, when the ball leaves the muzzle it will continue it's flight in a curve. The 'tail' however will make it fly true and straight. Being an engineer type, he can talk in real mathematicals and geek speek to "prove" his theory is correct. Me, being just plain and ordinary without the benefit of high level education thinks once the ball leaves the muzzle it travels straight (excepting for outside forces like wind and gravity). Might not go where you want it to but it will travel straight. And as for the "tail" thing, I still have the jury out on whether there is any benefit to it.
Steve Tobler
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Are you contemplating doing something like this ?
... or where you thinking of screwing it in all the way, flush ?
Presume you are going to place the "tail" at the sprue cut ?
... or where you thinking of screwing it in all the way, flush ?
Presume you are going to place the "tail" at the sprue cut ?
It seems like an engineer type would grasp the basics of the flight of a projectile, the curve would be a gavity thing, or for horizontal deviation like a baseball would need some spin of some sort to cause a curved path of travel, as far as the tails go I think no improvement in accuracy would be experienced and most probably the opposite result would be the likley result IMHO
The experiments conducted by Dr. Franklin Mann in the late 19th and early 20th centuries demonstrated that an unbalanced bullet will fly in a spiral, corkscrew path. It could well be that a ball from a bent barrel may indeed take a curved flight but the normal random dispersion of balls from a smoothbore would make it very difficult to prove or disprove.
Steve Tobler
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I seem to recall reading about some early experiments with curved barrels to shoot around corners. Didn't work.
Today's technology has a solution that swivels a straight barrel around the corner, with the shooter safely operating the firearm from a sheltered position.
Today's technology has a solution that swivels a straight barrel around the corner, with the shooter safely operating the firearm from a sheltered position.
None of us are perfect. He is a very-very smart guy and highly experienced muzzle loader. I would accept his advice in almost all matters regarding muzzle loading without question. Except for this one. Why/how he has come to think like this is a puzzlement. 
But, he is not alone in this thinking. I have met others on other ML forums who agree with him. As I said, I'm a layman in matters of physics, external ballistics and such. I can only go on my gut instinct that tells me once the ball has left the muzzle it's flight is in a straight line. I'm not qualified to debate the issue with him on an academic level. :idunno: But, dear friend or not, he is wrong. I just know it.
But, he is not alone in this thinking. I have met others on other ML forums who agree with him. As I said, I'm a layman in matters of physics, external ballistics and such. I can only go on my gut instinct that tells me once the ball has left the muzzle it's flight is in a straight line. I'm not qualified to debate the issue with him on an academic level. :idunno: But, dear friend or not, he is wrong. I just know it.
hanshi
Cannon
You are correct; the ball from a bent barrel will travel in a straight line from the muzzle. For it to do otherwise would go against physical laws governing motion. Since a ball isn't self-powered, it can only go in one direction; that direction being where it was last guided.
" But, dear friend or not, he is wrong. I just know it."
Gotta go with ya on this one, it just does not follow the laws of physics as I recall them.As I said with a twist or spin one might throw a curve ball but the bent barrel thing just seems off track.It would be interesting to hear an explaination of just what dynamics are at work to cause this to be true,aside from just having a bent barrel, if that is the case could one defeat gravity by bending the barrel up and have an upward curved flight path? a spiral or uneven flight is believebale and could be caused by a number of things, I guiss one would really need to define exactly what the curved path really is defined as before determining what caused it, quite often we try to prove or disprove something before really having a definition or understanding of just what we are proving or dissproving ...anyway this type of stuff is really beyound anything I really take much interest in normaly as any modern ballistic theory does nothing for me when dealing with ML's, I like to stay in the same plane of reference/ballistic knowledge as they did when shooting the originals, I find that to be enough for my purposes.
Gotta go with ya on this one, it just does not follow the laws of physics as I recall them.As I said with a twist or spin one might throw a curve ball but the bent barrel thing just seems off track.It would be interesting to hear an explaination of just what dynamics are at work to cause this to be true,aside from just having a bent barrel, if that is the case could one defeat gravity by bending the barrel up and have an upward curved flight path? a spiral or uneven flight is believebale and could be caused by a number of things, I guiss one would really need to define exactly what the curved path really is defined as before determining what caused it, quite often we try to prove or disprove something before really having a definition or understanding of just what we are proving or dissproving ...anyway this type of stuff is really beyound anything I really take much interest in normaly as any modern ballistic theory does nothing for me when dealing with ML's, I like to stay in the same plane of reference/ballistic knowledge as they did when shooting the originals, I find that to be enough for my purposes.
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all hail and glory to the empiricist! (or "Show Me" in fancy language)
long ago, and in a land far away, when i was a little kid (that was right after the Earth cooled), you could get three four TV stations in the greater Boston area, 4 5&7, plus the WGBH channel 2 (these folks pioneered the TV acution as a fund raising method, for the devotees of trivia among us)
i particularly enjoyed watching Channel 2 because i could watch as much as i wanted (it didn't count to my daily half hour) and because they had cool demonstrations of basic ballistics physics. One such demonstration involved a large plate with a wedge shaped slice. they got a marble spinning along the groove in the plate at a pretty good clip and then dropped out the wedge shaped piece and, lo, the marble took off in a straight line, which was tangential to the arc of the plate at the point where the wedge began. then gravity took over and the marble fell to the floor. they had slow motion footage of the whole thing. rather remarkable for an eight year old.
well, enough of the ruminations of an old fart... i will defer to those with the time and resources to prov me wrong, and i'll apologize for my skepticism when and if they do.
until then,
make good smoke!
long ago, and in a land far away, when i was a little kid (that was right after the Earth cooled), you could get three four TV stations in the greater Boston area, 4 5&7, plus the WGBH channel 2 (these folks pioneered the TV acution as a fund raising method, for the devotees of trivia among us)
i particularly enjoyed watching Channel 2 because i could watch as much as i wanted (it didn't count to my daily half hour) and because they had cool demonstrations of basic ballistics physics. One such demonstration involved a large plate with a wedge shaped slice. they got a marble spinning along the groove in the plate at a pretty good clip and then dropped out the wedge shaped piece and, lo, the marble took off in a straight line, which was tangential to the arc of the plate at the point where the wedge began. then gravity took over and the marble fell to the floor. they had slow motion footage of the whole thing. rather remarkable for an eight year old.
well, enough of the ruminations of an old fart... i will defer to those with the time and resources to prov me wrong, and i'll apologize for my skepticism when and if they do.
until then,
make good smoke!
I intend to patch the balls the same way that the Pashtun did. My gun is a .62, I will then take a thick over sized patch with a long tail and put it on a .58 rb.
The sturmgewehr made by the Germans in WW2 had a curved barrel for shooting around corners. It worked, but not well. Its flaw was its projectile, the 8mm bullet badly eroded the curved section of the barrel and the jacket tended to break apart. That being said, when the bullet left the barrel it was traveling generally straight (tumbling straight).
The sturmgewehr made by the Germans in WW2 had a curved barrel for shooting around corners. It worked, but not well. Its flaw was its projectile, the 8mm bullet badly eroded the curved section of the barrel and the jacket tended to break apart. That being said, when the bullet left the barrel it was traveling generally straight (tumbling straight).
DanChamberlain
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Heck, why not attach a fishing line and reel as well.
Just kidding.
Dan
Just kidding.
Dan
hanshi said:
No, it will travel in a parabola due to gravity. :wink:
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