Max load for an Italian reproduction enfield

I have until September, so plenty of time.

You need to paper patch those smooth sided Pritchett Bullets or you will lead the barrel.

Im making paper cartridges that I will ram down as wadding is that the same thing? I did some research and yea they need to be patched but those pritchets are .550 these are "SWAGED .577 ENFIELD BULLETS"

Do I still need to patch them?

if they don't have a grease groove, then you need to patch them.

RedFeather said:

Remember, the military 60 grain powder charge behind the 500 grain Minié ball was designed to kill or seriously disable a man at up to 900 yards. There is no wild game that will stand up to that any better.

I once asked a fellow who was a long time gun nut and hunter why so many military rifles were sporterized as hunters? He asked me, "What does a deer weigh?" "Oh, I guess about a hundred sixty pounds." "What's a man weigh?" Your remark, above, reminded me of that short, yet ever so enlightening, conversation. :grin:

When I first got my Zouave, I shot the 525 grain Minie over 65 grains FFg weating while a T-shirt. Got me some nice yellow and bluish-green bruises. Now, in combat, that load's all good. I don't think you need any more than a standard load such as that for most anything in North America. You could even go less with some of the lighter, shorter bullets. In the case of my Zoli Zouave, they might even shoot more accurately.

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To hit anything at 900 yards would require about 30 degrees of elevation.
There is no doubt the standard minie load has plenty of penetration for any North American game. The problem for the hunter is the horrible trajectory which makes hitting game at unknown distances pretty much a "guess and hope" proposition.
The minies may produce fine accuracy for the target shooter, after he has done the work to find that optimum load but the target shooter is not concerned with trajectory. He knows the exact distance to the target and can adjust his sights accordingly.
The hunter is very much concerned with trajectory since his shots come at random unknown distances. A velocity of only 900 fps means that a slight error in range estimation can make a great error in point of impact. Running a patched ball at 1400 fps makes range estimation less critical and the .570" diameter 275 grain ball also has plenty of power for game. Maybe not to 900 yards, but certainly to 200 yards. Another problem for the hunter of little concern to the target shooter is the minie's propensity to gravitate away from the powder charge if the gun is carried some distance. Easy ramming down the bore means easy sliding back up. That won't happen with a tightly patched ball.
Even in modern centerfire rifles few hunters will choose the heaviest available bullet, unless for a rifle of very small bore, otherwise we generally use mid-weight bullets for higher velocity and flatter trajectory even though they may be a poor choice for 1,000 yard match shooting they are a better choice for hunting shots within half that distance.
I've hunted with my Zouave but I never even considered using a minie, for the hunter a patched ball has ALL the advantages.

The patched round is too big to fit in the barrel, I just coated the rounds in bore butter before putting them in the cartridge. Although i did put the paper coated in bore butter i used for the patches before ramming the round down.

If a PRB is too large to fit your barrel, you are using the WRONG sized RB! Get another mold, or contact lead ball suppliers to get a smaller diameter ball that fits your barrel. That means that you have to MEASURE THE BORE YOURSELF, and determine its dimensions to the thousandths of an inch- not rely on some stamping on the barrel from some factory! :shocked2: If you don't have the tools, or don't know HOW to measure your bore, take the gun to a gunsmith, and pay him to do it. Its money well spent.

For example: One of the members here just brought me his foreign made shotgun, to measure the bore to determine what size he had, and whether the barrel was choked. I pulled the barrel, and showed him where the factory marked the underside of the barrel with its proof marks, and a metric indication of bore diameter. We did the math to convert to caliber, and found that his barrel had an Improved Cylinder bore diameter indicated.

He had already bought wads for this gun, so he wanted to use what he had and see what kind of patterns, and groups he got shooting shot and RB loads. He will take the gun back to me in the future if he is having troubles, so that we can measure the actual bore diameter, back behind the choke at the muzzle. I have the tools to do this kind of thing.

itsatrap said:

I recently purchased a reproduction p1853 enfield. I am looking to go target shooting and this coming deer season shoot some deer with it. I have received plenty of excellent advice about load amounts but I hear that the euro arms and armi sport reproductions are not designed to handle past 60 grains of black powder when live firing. Just trying to avoid blowing my breach out.

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Hello,
I can't make out in your thread which Company made your Rifle, but if it is Euroarms I would suggest writing them. I've written them 5-6 times and have always recieved a response to my sometimes silly questions.
Mr. Amandi is the person you need to speak to in Italy (the email contact is provided on thier Internet page).
Just ask him about the proof test. He will not give any information about load data and/or what you should use, but I see no reason not to give the proof data out. It should be available to every buyer.
It is worth a try and doesn't cost anything.

Its a pritchett ball, not a round ball, and I bought .577 caliber pritchet balls which is the caliber of the Enfield. I shot off 12 rounds standing un supported. At 50 yards I hit my target most times, I will shoot next week for accuracy.

itsatrap said:

Its a pritchett ball, not a round ball, and I bought .577 caliber pritchet balls which is the caliber of the Enfield. I shot off 12 rounds standing un supported. At 50 yards I hit my target most times, I will shoot next week for accuracy.

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If the Pritchet actually meaures .577 and they are a slip fit in a clean barrel then your bore size is obviously over .577. The problem is how much over, and with an odd number of grooves, measuring the bore is a problem without the right micrometer. Try taking it to a macine shop that has a 3 point anvil micrometer and have him measure the bore. I'f you plan on using a paper patch(which you probably should to prevent leading), you'll have to run the bullet through a sizing die to allow for the patch thickness. otherwise use a grooved minie .001-.002 under bore size. I'm curious about how much effort it took to ram the 12th round home. I don't thing there's enough lube on that grooveless
bullet to keep the fouling soft, which will indeed result in leading. Even if you don't have much trouble seating the bullet, you'll proably see the accuracy fall off.

Duane

I got to following this thread & have a question fellows.I'm just a 100 yard round ball guy,so over
look my ignorance.

But how in the world could someone even see a
target at 900 yards.For me 300 yards target
would have to be the size of a car?????

Fly :idunno:

poke and hope :haha:
utube has a couple video's of guys shooting muskets at long range. its doable. extreme elevation.

I tried my first round with a patch and couldn't fit it at all, this just lubed the round up and popped it in. I was using newsprint thickness paper for the patch. When cleaning your rifle, how clean do you go till? Like I ran must have been 20 patches through and tore up an old shirt and soaked that in solvent and the center would be clean but the edges would be grey. Do you clean till white>

itsatrap said:

I tried my first round with a patch and couldn't fit it at all, this just lubed the round up and popped it in. I was using newsprint thickness paper for the patch. When cleaning your rifle, how clean do you go till? Like I ran must have been 20 patches through and tore up an old shirt and soaked that in solvent and the center would be clean but the edges would be grey. Do you clean till white>

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Hot soapy water is about the best cleaning agent,
One tang screw and the bands allows disassembly. Remove the nipple, put the breech in a pail of water, scrub it with a tight brush then move on to patches. The dark edge is where the patch is
against the corners of the grooves which are harder to get clean. Normally I would say the grey is carbon,which is harmless but it also could be lead.

Duane

hi...look here Post#938590

Link please? Search can't find it

ok adding to this thread. I got a navy arms Zouave repo. Shooting a 575 lee mini with greased lube grooves, it shoots on target at 25-100 yards. Problem is they keyhole at 25 yards. Go through paper sidewise for sure. Using a 572 round ball lee mold and a .010 patch that looks perfect after shot, I mean perfect, barely any black on it at all behind 60 grains of RS, the round ball shoots 3 feet high at 100 yards. Is the ballistics that different?

Dirty bore on the mini? Very shallow grooves in my limited opinion. Why go sideways that quick?

If your minies are keyholing either they are too small or your lead is too hard, that is pretty much it. They should be no more than .002 under bore size.

there has to be a possibility to copy the threads......but my pc :grin: doesn't do it.
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