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Measuring a shot load by volume?

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token tory

45 Cal.
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OK I need to check my logic here so...

I want to come up with a shot load equivalent to a .454 RB. Here's my clever(?) plan, can you find a hole in my logic. I plan to do 3~4 cycle to get good averages when setting up.

1. Weigh a .454 RB on my scale.
2. Put enough 7 1/2 shot, scrounged from a few modern 12 gauge shells, in the pan to get the same weight.
3. Open up a large adjustable powder measure & pour the weighed shot in.
4. Slide the adjustment up to exactly fill the cavity.
5. Fill this cavity as a volume measure for the correct amount of shot.

Whaddya thunk :hmm: Working idea or flawed.
 
Your calculation seems right on, but you aren't intending to use shot in a rifled arm are you? Unless you're just planning on snake-loads at a couple of yards (max!), you know about the donut effect, right?

Forgive me if I'm belaboring the obvious. Just thought I'd touch on it in case...

(For the newbies, y'know... :wink: )
 
I agree that will work...and as some additional information...in case your efforts are to match the weight of the shot charge to the weight of the PRB in the belief that you can't exceed that PRB weight.

Be aware that as one example, TC's load data chart lists the .440"/127grn ball for their .45cal muzzleloader, and also lists various .45cal conicals which weigh right on up to 320grns...2.5 times the weight of the .440"/127grn ball.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Colonialist said:
OK I need to check my logic here so...

I want to come up with a shot load equivalent to a .454 RB. Here's my clever(?) plan, can you find a hole in my logic. I plan to do 3~4 cycle to get good averages when setting up.

1. Weigh a .454 RB on my scale.
2. Put enough 7 1/2 shot, scrounged from a few modern 12 gauge shells, in the pan to get the same weight.
3. Open up a large adjustable powder measure & pour the weighed shot in.
4. Slide the adjustment up to exactly fill the cavity.
5. Fill this cavity as a volume measure for the correct amount of shot.

Whaddya thunk :hmm: Working idea or flawed.

What have you come up for the powder charge..
Twice.
 
I weighed several period style conicals & came up with an average weight of 142GR. so that's what I'm aiming for. I've fired these with 28 Gr charges of FFFg & it seems well within the capacity of the pistol.

Answers to your questions posed here.
Yes I've done some shot in rifled barrels, & you're right its not going to hold a group at any kind of distance.

I'm figuring on the same charge weight as I use for RB, 28 Gr.
Assuming there is a group :haha: I'm hoping for a similar POI for the center. :youcrazy:
 
Ah...didn't realize it was a pistol...noticed the odd size .454" but didn't connect the dots
 
Shot loads out of any rifled barrel will spin, and string out, producing a "pattern" like the stripe on a barber's pole, unfortunately. Anything beyond about 5 yards is a wish and a hope to hit.

That may be okay for a pistol, considering the much closer ranges that most shooters will try to take shots with pistols. As Slow as the Rate of Twist is in MLers, and as slow as the velocity is when shooting loads from pistols, that shot load will still be spinning at an incredible rate of speed( you can compute the rpm's for any given Rate of Twist, and velocity).

For Yucks, and the challenge, and to try to get some of our Rifle Shooters to try the NEW club Trap machine, we held a " novelty" shoot for rifles, shooting shot, at clay targets. The guys were allowed to stand right next to the machine, and the targets were thrown straight out, rather than off to one side or the other. Even with these allowances( and shots taken at 5-10 yards) we had far more misses than hits. I think we shot at 3-5 targets, and you could re-enter to improve your score. The club provided #7 1/2 sized shot. Even when we hit the targets, we were chipping the edges. :surrender: :hmm: :thumbsup:

The grumbling about how difficult it was to clean all the lead out of the grooves of those rifles that we heard the next month resulted in a vote to discontinue those kind of "novelty matches".

If you have ever tried shooting .22 rimfire shotshells from a revolver with rifling, ( either the old LR, or newer .22 magnum) or tried any of the much more expensive shotloads in .38, or .45 caliber cartridges, you will find much the same problem( altho many of these shot loads use #12 shot, which is like dust!)

I always encourage new shooters to test loads in their guns( within reason) to find out for themselves what works, and what doesn't, if they have the time and money. Go ahead and try a shot load in that .454 bore. Just keep your expectations low, so you won't be grossly disappointed! :shocked2: :wink:

When we were doing that novelty shoot at the club, and missing those clay targets, several members decided to retire to the rifle range, and see what kind of patterns were being produced out of their rifles at various distances. They fired loads from 25 yards, and after finding that most of the pellets missed the paper, they moved in closer, and reduced powder charges.

A couple of us stood off to the side of the shooters, but closer to the targets. We could actually hear and see the pellets spirally as they hit the paper. It was weird! The patterns had large holes in the center, and the only way to get that hole smaller was to stand closer to the target. Oh, POI was substantially different, depending on load used, than what the same gun did shooting PRBs. Mostly, the POI was much lower, which explained so many of the "misses" on the flying clay targets. However, as the bore got more and more lead deposits in the grooves, even the POI changed, and the pattern spread out more.

I did the same experiments with revolvers and shot loads back in the early 1970s, when I was trying to come up with a better home-defense load. I was unimpressed with both the patterns, and the penetration from the commercial shot loads. I decided to have a loaded shotgun handy for self-defense at home instead( in addition to loaded handguns tactically placed around the home for quick acquisition and use), and abandoned the idea of using shot loads in revolvers for this purpose.
 
I'm hoping for HOA (Hour of angle :stir: ) so I don't think I'll be horribly disappointed.
It's just an experiment & assuming it actually puts some shot in something resembling a pattern I'll post the results when I get done.
I'm kind of wondering how a non- saboted load in a (comparatively) short, but wide bore is going to work.
Maybe a few of the shot won't actually rattle of the rifling as they head downrange with the almost 1/2" bore. :rotf:

We shot clays with .22 shot-shells once. Even with the clay laying on the snow & firing at 10' (as close as we dared get for safety reasons) they didn't break......they were filled with lots of little holes, but unbroken, that's when we just gave up :surrender: :shake:
 
Chaz,

Remember to use a good lead solvent like Shooters' Choice or Hoppe's #9 lead solvent (not the patch lube kind) to get rid of the lead build-up in the groves of your rifled pistol to ensure good groups with that Remmy after you finish the experiment (for the newbies). A brush soaked with Shooters' Choice would do the trick :wink: .

If you can get a friend that reloads shot shells to cough-up some Magnum Lead #7 1/2, that would be even better, as it isn't quite as soft as regular #7 1/2 and won't lead-up the bore as much.

Dave
 
For anyone else loco enough to try this the shot equivalent weight on a powder measure comes to a "25 Grain"(by volume) setting for a charge weight of 141 Gr(weighed) of actual #7 1/2 pellets.:youcrazy:

Good point on the modern pellet hardness, I was kind of wondering about that, but the opposite way with it being too hard. :redface:

I'll scrub well with Hoppes & a bore brush afterward, I have all those things handy & I'm only planning on firing a dozen shot loads max.
 
It's not such a crazy idea, matter of fact it's been done like that for ages. Here's a quote from the original TC manual when speaking of the shot charge for their 12 ga;
"*Use your graduated powder measure to measure your shot charge. When the
measure is set for 90 grains of FFG Black Powder it will hold approx. 1 1/4 oz.
of shot by volume."


It's in there several times with different loads and again when they talk of their 56 smoothy, :wink:
 
Sorry if I'm preaching to the choir, and it certainly won't be an issue with the small charges you're dealing with. But here goes anyway:

If actual weight is the critical point, you'll have to use a different measure setting for each size of shot.

Long ago we "needed" heavy loads of small shot in 12 gauge 3" mags for high flying doves. Shoved the 1 7/8 oz sleeve in the old Mec loader and filled the shot hopper with #8 shot. They did the job, buck kicked like hell since most shooting was straight overhead.

Only later did we get out the scale and weigh the shot that was being dropped. Tipped the scale to almost 2 1/4 oz!!!!! Since we were using standard powder charges for 1 7/8 oz, who knows what kind of pressure we were generating. Obviously the measure was calibrated with something like #2 shot.

No point in that story in your uses, but food for thought just the same.
 
That's actually a good point to bring up. :hatsoff:
Not so much for me as this is probably going to be a one time deal with the shot I have on hand only, but for anyone else who sees this thread & uses the info for "snake loads" or whatever.

I'm guessing I'll load 2 wads, one over the powder as normal & another in front of the shot to keep it in place??? :idunno:

This is a work in progress......... :rotf:
 
Just a suggestion: If you think of it, have a couple of soft RBs handy, and patch and shoot them when you finish with the lead shot load testing. That expanding lead ball should push fabric from the patch tightly into the grooves, and then fire OUT any lead that is in those grooves. A couple of low powered PRBs into the dirt should be all that is needed to get a majority of the lead out of the bore.

And, if you grease the bore with a lubed cleaning patch, before shooting those lead shot loads, you may just eliminate leading in the grooves, altho the pellets will be damaged by passing through the grooves, and over those edges.

I still use a good lead solvent on a cleaning patch to clean the bore, and I am specifically looking for small slivers and streaks of lead, after I get the carbon out of the bore. When I have greased my barrel, I had little or no lead debris show on my cleaning patches. Again, Just a thought. Its been years since I tested lead shot loads in my rifle, so not all of this came back to me, until I read the other posts here. :thumbsup:
 
I actually do have most of a box of Buffalo Bullet Co. .440 round balls, so, in theory at least I can patch them as I usually use .454 & shave a circle.

I also pre-lube the bore (I have to as I degrease the modern lube I store with, so the bore is dry if I don't) & I use felt lubed wads, maybe a tad of extra secret schmutz on them will grease the bore up enough so that normal cleaning will do?

Fun, fun, fun. :grin:
 
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