Southern Mountain Rifles

In the course of researching longrifle builders for a custom (and not too terribly expensive : longrifle, I came across the site of Toadhall Muzzleloaders, Mr. Bookout comes from a long line of southern longriflemakers and specializes in a east Tenn Southern Mountain style that I find intriguing. See www.midiowa.com/toadhallrifleshop. he builds them the old way, from scratch (incl trigger assemblies and barrels :. Of course, as luck would have it, he's got an 18 mo. backlog. However, these rifles have seemed to grow on me (saw an original flintlock southern rifle circa 1850 per owner at a recent gun show). If I ever create a persona, my Grandfather's family came across the Appalachians from 1680s to W. Tenn. where he was born in 1898....anyways, does anyone have any thoughts on an early southern mountain flinter?

Bookie does great work, one has to be carefull when looking for "early" versions of many styles of guns, as often times history, and a preference for a particular type of gun, can lead one into what is commonly called the fantasy gun world.An analogy might be to ask for an M16 but make it PC for WW1......just a thought, as always, look to the originals for direction and a sense of how they were done at the time.

Not that anyone needs an excuse to get one of Mr.Bookout's rifles, but re-enacting in the persona of an ancestor is a good one. These make great rifles- any Tennessee or mountain style rifle--it's really just a matter of deciding which caliber is most appropriate to your needs. That and the small matter of raising the money. Waiting eighteen months would be hard, but worth it.

Right now Fellow AMM member and riflesmith is living in the area of the Bean Family riflemakers and does a kickbutt copy of their work....heck I think he has one of them finished now in .36....not my favorite caliber, but correct fot the rifles built there...those folks were stingy with lead and made up for it by being fine shots.....Roger Sells (931-445-3790) can tell you about his work and perhaps have a shorter waiting list. While hopeing to not take anything From Mr Bookhouse....This man I speak of is honorable and gifted with riflebuilding. He does it more as a labor of love than a commercial venture. Roger lives in Monteray,Tennessee. It would be worth a phone call I believe to check him out.

I couldn't tell much about the Soddy rifle he shows but it looked pretty good. One note of caution,these Tennessee guns and especially the post Civil War guns always had English styled locks with round tails or on some of the earlier ones{early 19th century} the locks had that little tit on the rear of an otherwise round tailed lock. I have also seen a few with squared off rears but never a Germanic lock like the Siler.I always liked those Soddy guns with the forestocks and butts diamond in cross section and those elongated narrow cheek pieces.I had one by Henry K Gardner that I sold and wouldn't mind having it back.
Tom Patton

What you consider "not terribly expensive" must be far different from my opinion, or else your find has developed a method of producing a barrel "from scratch" (which I take to mean forged from raw iron) for less that $1,000 or so in just the barrel.

Is he just rifling bar stock?

Stumpkiller -
To me, a "plain jane" custom rifle "made from scratch" in the $1,500 range is not too terribly expensive compared to the $3,500 -4,000 custom golden agers with silver wire inlay, lots of carving, etc. Now my wife would differ! :haha: Of course I will have to sell several MLs first to afford it. :cry: Bookie forges his own barrels. But he's backlogged and not currently taking orders :cry:

TwoShadows- You've seen his work? Thank you for the information. I called him and he is sending me some photos e-mail.

If you don't want to wait.. Dennis Glazener is a decendent of the Gillespies, and sells a kit for a Gillispie s. mtn rifle. ::, I guess you would have to find a builder for it, http://www.gillespierifles.com/
:boohoo:

Nice link, but works better this way.

http://www.midiowa.com/toadhallrifleshop/

TwoShadows- Thanks again for putting me in touch with Roger Sells. We're hammerin' out the details for a .54 flintlock Southern Mountain Rifle; looks like Colerain 42" swamped barrel, extra premium curly maple. The photos he sent of the .50 percussion and .36 flint are awesome! :redthumb: Wish I could afford the .36 flinter as well. But I need to sell some MLs as it is :boohoo: If anyone needs one, I'm selling a .50 jeager and a Kodiak .58 double ::

Bob J; I just bought a Tenn mtn rifle on the internet w/a 3 day inspection. The owner said he had it made about 30 yrs ago and the gentleman was still building rifles. The Rifle was signed "John E Sells". I've built several rifles in the past and have a good eye (so-far) for quality workmanship and good lines(that's why I don't build my own any more :shake If these guys are related and there work is similar, you'll NEVER see better workmanship anywere :master: Due to illness I haven't shot it yet. Regardless I'm going to make a flint bbl & lock for it, as it's percussion at this time sosin I'll have both. I posted photos of it a month or so ago in the photo section as "New purchace" It's architecture seems to be some Tn poor boy(as they now say) and early style full stock Hawkin.Good luck, hope this is of some help to ya. :thumbsup:
sniper68

Sniper68-That is one sweet-lookin' southern rifle! The pictures help me with what I'm considering; going with extra premium curly maple and skipping the patch box. In my opinion a "period correct" banana-type box only detracts from such a beautiful stock :imo:. I'll ask Roger if he is related to your riflemaker. By the way, he has one real nice .36 flinter with walnut stock for $800.00. If only I could afford a 2nd purchase... :cry:

http://www.midiowa.com/toadhallrifleshop/

Click to expand...

I bought a (modern made)Tennessee Mountain gun at a gun show several years back. It is the identical style of Mr. Bookout's gun as shown on his website -- thin wrist, "Bean style" buttplate and triggerguard, poured nosecap, etc. What vintage is this style gun? How far back can this style be traced?

JW

jh20man-That's a good question. I don't know how far back that particular style of a Tenn. Mountain rifle goes, but would guess maybe 1830s. Do know that they made flintlocks in the South thru 1850s (maybe longer). Have read that some Confederates carried 'em in the War of Northern Aggression :blah: Incidentally, National geographic had a photo several years ago of a gentleman on the Union side with the flintlock he fought with at Gettysburg. He had used the same rifle in the War of 1812. Perhaps you could e-mail Bookie and ask him about vintage, I would be interested in knowing.

The gentleman who used a flintlock to ward off the rebel invasion during the war of southern agression was John Burns,(1789-1872) and he was slightly wounded.



Yes, John did use the same musket in the war of 1812. Seems Mr. Burns was intent upon defending his country whenever it was attacked.

Finnwoilf

Thanks for the info and photo, Finnwolf. Mr. Burns must have been 73 or 74 in that last battle.

Good morning, Gentlemen. I normally hang out in the pre-flintlock site of this forum. The Toad Hall Rifleshop is quite busy these days. After reading the previous posts, please allow me to say that do I prefer to use Siler locks whenever possible (mountain locks and this is because of a personal brotherhood relationship that goes back to the old Viet Nam war) and the L&R TPL "Barnett" flintlock on my rifles. I will use a Siler flinter, but normally convert it's appearance to as much "English" as I can. This is not my preferred mode of operandi, though. Currently, there is a fine Southern gent from one of the universities in Alabama visiting Toad Hall to learn the arts & mysteries of barrel forging. We are using a wrought iron rim from the front wheel of an old farm wagon picked up on his Granddaddy's place. The barrel ought to be .40 cal. when we're done. Cheers, Bookie

<<< anyways, does anyone have any thoughts on an early southern mountain flinter? >>>

I think that they are the best MLs ever. I also like some fancier guns, but the guns that I really enjoy are the plainer Southern guns. I have been to Bookout's site and liked it. Good looking stuff there Steve. I need to come and visit you someday. Maybe they will shorten the ride from South Carolina to make it easy for me.

I also like Track of the Wolf's North Carolina to Tennessee (aka Pecatonica River's Tennessee Classic) quite well, but the large Siler seems out of place when one starts looking at pictures of originals. On the other hand, it works quite well.

I would point out that Dillin's book The Kentucky Rifle (page 116) shows a Tennessee style flinter that dates to the battle at King's Mountain in 1780. Somewhat squared trigger guard and a double set trigger. 48 inch barrel and .50 cal. with a total weight of 10 pounds. Nice over the log gun in my view. Grease hole placed similarly to Bookout's rifles.

The same page lists Simon Kenton's rifle as a single trigger Southern rifle. This would be likely from about the same time period with a few style similarities, but a trigger guard more similar to the shallow bowed Pensylvania cast type.

Jerry Noble has at least two books out on Southern longrifles. I have heard a rumour of a third being almost ready, so I need to call him. These books, especially the second, would be of interest to anyone wanting to learn about the Southern guns. (The first book was more about builders than the rifles themselves.)
Last time that I called him his number was (309) 582-2852. Asks that calls come from 8:30 to 10:00 PM Central.

CS

Hi Crackshot. Jerry and are friends and I received his 3rd book about three weeks ago. The publisher did a poor job for Jerry and the photos are rather grainy. Too bad because the book has some great Southern guns depicted and scenes from old, outdoor gun shops. Still, the volume has merit and should be a welcome addition to any Southern rifle aficicondo's library. Bookie