Octagon, to 16 Flats, to Wedding Band, then Round....

Picked up an original smoothbore. It's got some very interesting features. But what really stood out to me was the Octagon barrel transitioning to 16 Flats, a wedding band, then finally a round barrel.

American made in Boston before the Civil War. I'm wondering how uncommon or common this feature was?

Forgot to mention above, that when it went to round it tapered all the way to the end...

Isn't it amazing. All the "Experts" on this forum are evidently out carousing together tonight. :v Show an actual early gun and get no response.

Here's another neat feature.... :grin:


You'll appreciate this. Under the guns stock, midway between the rear extension of the trigger bow and the toeplate.....It's actually quite small, I was using a macro lens...

Wonder what it is?

That's the way it goes. Appears to be a nice gun and I'm no "Expert" but I know what I like.

True enough....

Mike B. and I might have gotten into it on rare occasion...somewhat regularly :grin:

But he'd of known the variants that I just posted, even though they aren't English.


giz

I bet that little compartment is for a spare nipple.

xtm

Gizamo..Dickson's fair is running Today through the weekend...lots of distractions there...Love the barrel... Can you post a full length picture?... Congrats on the find..How's it shoot?

xtimberman said:

I bet that little compartment is for a spare nipple.

xtm

Click to expand...

Could be but it is usually called a "cap box". The gun, when loaded but not in use - say hanging on the rack or standing in the corner ready for use - has the caps removed from the nipples and stored in the cap box so it can't be fired accidentally. The caps can be pulled from the box and the nipples can be primed when needed.

Example? My wife's great-grandfather's double barreled shotgun ("Van Lew and Smith, Richmond, Va." marked but English made) was loaded but unprimed and two caps were found in the cap box when the barrels were unloaded in 1965.

The work on the barrel taking it to 16 sides was not at all uncommon but certainly not rare on middle grade to higher grade English export guns. Forgot to ask, what makes you say it is Boston made? Check the bottom of the barrel, dollars to doughnuts there are British proofs. Many were imported and locks were marked with American sellers' names.

The barrel itself is marked Boston.... :wink:

The gun is a Lane & Reed...

gizamo said:

The barrel itself is marked Boston.... :wink:

The gun is a Lane & Reed...

Click to expand...

Giz, that's interesting...I once had a Wm. Cashmore (Birmingham) breechloading shotgun - and the barrel rib was engraved "W. Read & Sons Boston, Mass." Spelled differently, of course - but the company was a reknown firearms importer and dealt in guns of all sorts - mostly high-end.

...I still think that you should look for English proofmarks under the barrel. The most likely one would look like crossed fireplace pokers under a crown.

xtm
:wink:

Fairly common feature for the transition.. :v

xtm,

I'm taking it apart and thoroughly cleaning it. Here is a pic of the underside barrel flat. As expected, there are the British proof marks. Also, I mispelled the name...It is Lane&Read :wink:

So, I'm now wondering if the gun is a English Fowler imported and stamped by an American company....???

gizamo said:

xtm,

I'm taking it apart and thoroughly cleaning it. Here is a pic of the underside barrel flat. As expected, there are the British proof marks. Also, I mispelled the name...It is Lane&Read :wink:

So, I'm now wondering if the gun is a English Fowler imported and stamped by an American company....???

Click to expand...

You can find out more about Lane & Read from the Boston Public Library. The main library at 700 Boylston St has copies of most Boston City Directories from 1789 to 1960 on microfiche.
A search will show when Lane & Read was in business and what they advertised as handling/doing. The Kirstein Business Branch at 20 City Hall Ave. (Kirstein is part of Boston Public Library) may also have information on Lane & Read. If you can't get to Boston, the Boston Society (Boston's historical society) may be willing to help for a fee. (I have used the New York Historical Society to research a firm in the NY City Directories).

gizamo said:

So, I'm now wondering if the gun is a English Fowler imported and stamped by an American company....???

Click to expand...

There's no doubt about it. Can we see more detailed views as well as an overall shot? Congratulations, it appears to be in very nice condition, you've got a nice one.

gizamo said:

Forgot to mention above, that when it went to round it tapered all the way to the end...

Isn't it amazing. All the "Experts" on this forum are evidently out carousing together tonight. :v Show an actual early gun and get no response.

Click to expand...

That is a nice piece you have there Giz. Undoubtedly a Brit made piece with the importers name on it. Importers putting their name on goods was and still is pretty common.

As to the "Experts" Most of them are probably teaching seminars or judging the items submitted for judging at Dixon's gunmakers fair, this weekend. So, yes they are probably pretty busy.

There are no fees for the seminars and judging, BTW. All of the instructors and judges do it voluntarily, free of charge, so they are taking time out of their own busy schedules to go there to promote the hobby. What are you doing to promote the hobby..other than taking jabs at the folks you rely on to do your research for you?

God bless

Va.Manuf.06

Thanks, it is in nice condition. The gun is a 12 bore and the barrel is 38" in length...

J.D. said:

What are you doing to promote the hobby..other than taking jabs at the folks you rely on to do your research for you?

God bless

Click to expand...

I'm going to continue to conserve original guns and provide detailed pics and descriptions. Hopefully, I will follow down the path that tg has been blazing... I'd like to provide documentation of the details of the original guns for future reference. That's way, if a builder decided to attempt a complete trigger bow and emulate the extensions... He'll have something to reference.



What are you up to these day's, J.D. ~ How can we each help this hobby of ours grow?

I started this post thinkin' I had a Boston made gun. Learned that it's most likely an English import. I made other mistakes along the way. But I learned because I asked...don't care if I looked foolish in the process.

In return, I'm trying to provide folks both new and old with a group of pictures representing a gun of the era. In the end, I hope everyone benefits.

Giz,

JMO, but I don't consider that the English proofmarks diminish the significance of what you have at all! Further investigation under other metal parts may indicate that everything else is American - and that only the barrel was imported. Frankly, I think you have a wonderful gun there - no matter it's origin!

Remember that many American makers continued to rely on fine English and european barrelmakers into the 20th century - particularly for their high-end firearms. Even JM Marlin did this -- their top-of-the-line Ballard rifles were furnished with Rigby barrels!

xtm

xtm, nobody is saying that Giz should let any statements of it's origin diminish his perceived value of the gun. The British guns of the 1850s were among the best made anywhere, often the best by far - British standards were very high. As a matter of fact, American makers simply couldn't compete in cost with the very well made British guns so American made fowlers of that period are very hard to find and are certainly no better in quality. Giz has every right to be very happy with the gun as did, I am sure, the original owner.

Well, I just came back in from patterning the gun. At 60grs of ffG it is a pure joy to shoot. It's light and lively, ignition is perfect, and nothing will escape the pattern it laid down at 20 yards.

Just became my favorite Smoothbore... :thumbsup: