Powder charge in Rice barrel

I just started shooting my newly finished Jim Chambers Virginia rifle. It is a .62 caliber. I was shooting a .600 PRB with Pillow ticking and 75 Gr. FFFG. The instructions in the kit said that not to use more powder than the caliber of the ball. Is this just a suggestion or is their limitations to the size of the charge for this type of barrel? I searched the Rice site and can't find information about it.

I am getting good groups at 60 yards but all are 3-4 inches low. I filed the front sight down more but no real difference in elevation. Can I go to a larger charge? What would be the max? Anybody else shoot this barrel?

Can't help you on the charge, but I would like to ask if you used the single trigger and what you think about the trigger pull...I'm planning on building one of these as my next build, my two flinters that I own have Davis double set triggers on them, but I'm considering the single trigger...Rifle will be used mainly for deer hunting....Thanks....

burgessrudy,

Normally, a rule of thumb is not to exceed 1 1/2 times the caliber. I've been shooting my MS Virginia in .60 cal with 75g fffg and it shoots like a champ.

nchawkeye,

Trigger pull on a single trigger is a function of where the trigger is pivoted. High and close to the sear makes a light quick release with a little take up. Low and away, is heavier and litte more take up. I see no advantage to a sett trigger with a well tuned lock and proper placement of trigger pivot. I have a couple that couldn't be more than 1 1/2 to 2 pounds. Clean and quick.

Hope this helps.

How long is the barrel? A 42 inch barrel in .62 caliber can burn up to 145.8 grains of powder, per formula. That is more than 5 drams of powder, which is way more powder than necessary. Your 75 grain charge is 2 3/4 drams. 3 drams is 83 grains. 60 grains would be 2 1/4 drams. 90 grains would be 3 1/4 drams.

I suggest trying the 2 3/4, 3, and 3 1/4 dram loads behind a PRB and see what kind of groups you get. Much of what you will get at 50 yards is a function of the fact that the barrel is NOT rifled but instead a smoothbore. Most of us have found we get better accuracy shooting PRB out of smoothbores if we use thicker patches, that are well lubed. It seems that the tighter the ball fits down the barrel the better the accuracy.Speed is not necessary to get good groups, nor to insure penetration and a clean kill with this size bore.

Accuracy begins to suffer after about 60-75 yards, but that covers a lot of distance for Whitetail deer hunters. I have friends who have killed deer at over 100 yards with smoothbores, but they are excellent, and well practiced shooters, and know their guns like an extension of their hands.

If you are worried if the barrel will take the heavier charges, don't be. Today's barrels are made of steel, nor iron of unknown quality, as original guns were. Today's barrels are usually bored out of round stock, rather than be folded flat stock that is welded down the entire length. Even today's welded barrels are quite adequate to fire these heavy charges. The quality of the steel is just superior than anything they had 230 years ago. Enjoy. :thumbsup:

Lots of "rules of thumb" floating around.

3/7th of the ball's WEIGHT.

"Enough powder to cover the ball in the palm of your hand"

Best person or firm to ask is who your next of kin will contact in the impending wrongful death lawsuit. If the kit's producer tells you a weight or volume . . . use it.

Way too many variables for "Rice" barrels. I have one of his from back when he was independant and it is strong enough for anything sensible. A 44" long "C" profile in .54 with 0.018" deep round groove rifling at 1 turn in 66". What's yours? If it has shallow walls, is a different taper, swamp or profile, square or radius groove, etc., etc.

That said; I shot 75 to 80 gr 2Fg in my 16 bore musket with no ill efects for 15 years. That was a Getz barrel, though. 3Fg is kind of small granualation for a .62. I'd guesstimate 75 gr 3F is equivalent to 85 +/- gr 2Fg if thrown by volume.

With slower twists more velocity will often/sometimes/occasionally give better round ball accuracy. And, with the same regularity, faster rifling may give better accuracy with lower velocities.

Are you hunting or paper punching?

The barrel is the standard swamped barrel that comes with the Jim Chambers Mark Silver Virginia Rifle. 42' inch .62 caliber. I used calipers on it and it is .62. My main purpose is to hunt with it. My front sight is made of coin silver and I have filed it down while in the field, but I think, but I am not sure, if the low impact is because of the charge and I want to try a larger charge to raise the impact. Is that the best thing to do? I think the front sight is low enough.

You could try raising the rear sight. (Which means swapping it for a new one). The good news is that you can "dummy one up" with masking tape or cereal box cardboard to see the height you need to order.

I keep my hunting rifles sighted about 1-1/2" high at 50 yards so I can aim center for the ranges I am apt to shoot. You can try upping the load, but if you're already that low at 60 you may just hit low faster with more powder. That is, flattening the trajectory may even make it worse if it is still climbing at 60 yards.

Don't tell my .54 Southern Rifle [44" Rice swamped barrel that} she might go on strike. It likes 100 grs. of 3F Wano a .023 patch and a ..530 ball. That is for 100 Yds. and if you wanted to kill a big furry thing.

I have never heard of using such "Pop Gun"loads in a modern barrel, for safety reasons. :shake:

redwing said:

I have never heard of using such "Pop Gun"loads in a modern barrel, for safety reasons. :shake:

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Sounds like a oct to round barrel to me. Some of these are kind of thin at the end.
Lehigh...

lehigh said:

redwing said:

I have never heard of using such "Pop Gun"loads in a modern barrel, for safety reasons. :shake:

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Sounds like a oct to round barrel to me. Some of these are kind of thin at the end.
Lehigh...

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Hey Paul and Lehigh,

I think you missed that he said this is the "Jim Chambers Virginia rifle" - a swamped Rifle barrel, not a smoothbore.

Burgessrudy, I'd be surprised if that .64 cal. rifle shot well with only 62 grains of powder. As others said, you should probably go up to the FFg powder for that large caliber size, but I wouldn't be surprised if the load that gun likes isn't somewhere around 80 grains of 2Fg or more.

DON'T file the sight down any further yet. Play with the loads (3-5 shots in a row, and then change load by about 5 grains) until you find out which load gives you the tightest groups. Once you have the tight groups, then you can start tapping the sights over to align it and file down the front sight as necessary to get the point of impact (POI) to come up to the point of aim (POA).

If you are shooting at 50 yard targets, I'd suggest you'd want the POI to be about 1½" to 2" above the POA. This should be you dead on (POI at POA) at 100 yds. out to about 115 yards, and within 2" of the point of aim everywhere in between. That's a killing shot on a deer at pretty much any shot you'd be taking with iron sights.

Good luck!
Twisted_1in66 :hatsoff:

had the same problem with my Chambers MS Va rifle when I first got it...had the charge up to 90 gr of ffg and still no raise in the point of impact...complained to Jim C., and he told me to call Getz, which I did..Getz asked me to send the bbl back...I decided to shoot a test target where I could show him my point of aim, and my point of impact....when I shot the target, the points were the same...don't know what happened, but it cured itself...shoot that gun some more...a lot more before you file the sights too low..Hank

Now that is D*** good advice. If you are new to shooting follow the Info in this post. Don't start filing until you can shoot groups regardless of where they are on the target. If you do, you may be sorry later. :redface:

I have shot a lot more than that using 2f.

I can't and won't tell ya how much is safe.

I would start over again with 2f.

Start off at say 55-60 gr and start working up.

Accuracy should fall off long before dangerous pressure starts.

Also what does the Lyman Handbook say ?

I am on break @ work and don't have mine in front of me.

Good Luck.

P.S.

If Jim Chambers gives you some advice, TAKE IT

IMHO

I shoot 75 grains in my .50 Rice with no problem. A great barrel maker from here in the NC Mts.

Thanks for all the responses! I will try some of the advice given.

I asked Rice what would be a good load in a .50 swamped "b" profile. The guy at the Rice booth at Friendship said to START with 50 gr, work up 5 grain at a time. He said around 80 grain will make a good hunting load for deer. He said to use .018 or .016 ticking to start.


Call Rice and ask them what to do. They'll tell you. But don't distract them too long, they need to get my barrel made!!!

The advice Rice brothers gave is good. Somewhere between 75 and 90 grains of powder you should find a load that shoots well at longer ranges in your gun. You can use the lower charge for punching paper at 50 yds and less. IF the barrel is on a flintlock, you may have to add ten percent more powder to a suggest load that would work in a percussion gun in order to get the same velocity and POI on the target. I recommend using FFg, but anyone shooting a new ML rifle should test both FFg and FFFg powders in the gun to see what it likes the best.

Most shooters don't have a clue about harmonics( barrel vibrations) as they affect groups size. Each barrel is different from the one before and the one made after it. That is why there is NO RIGHT load for any ML rifle, of any caliber.

The one grain per caliber only works to about 36-40 caliber. 45 grains in a 45 will kill deer buts its no powerhouse and will not shoot as flat as 60 grains.
A 60 caliber ball weighs about 290+- grains so 62 grains is a serious underload.
You *should* get good enough velocity to shoot reasonably flat to 100 yards with 90-100 grains of FF or FFFG powder. This is still about 1/3 ball weight so more powder might be needed. Smaller bores give best velocity with about 1/2 ball weight of FFFG.
Large bores, starting at about 62, use the powder a little more efficiently than the smaller bores based on shooting a 66 cal (16 bore) and what I have been told by other "bore" size rifle shooters.
For hunting deer sized animals a rifle should produce a point blank range of 100-120 yards. Meaning the ball is no more than 4" over or 4" below line of sight over that distance.
Dan

Actually a .610 ball weighs 340 grains...80-110 of FF or FFF would be a bone smashing load...I would hesitant to load a swamped barrel with much more than 110-120 grains....Frankly its just not needed...Look at the 45-70, plenty for buffalo, even today....

I've killed plenty of deer, with a .45 and 65 grains FFF and plenty with a .54 and 80grs FFF.

I'm just starting a rifle that will use a Rice .62 cal barrel. After talking with several .62 cal PRB shooters, and since the rifle will be used primarily for hunting, I will start at about 90 grains of Goex 2F and go from there.
A few years ago I took a large cow Elk in Arizona with a .60 cal PRB in a 42" Getz swamped barrel. My load was 125 grains of 2F (on the advice of experienced muzzle loading Elk hunters) and it worked perfectly.

I only met Dan Pharris once through a mutual friend, but I know he has been making and shooting muzzle loaders for many years. He has also worked for the largest modern maker of Sharps rifles in the U.S., so I know his advice is sound.

Regards, Dave