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3RD Model Dragoon Now In Inventory

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Dave Rosenthal

70 Cal.
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Well I finally did it! I went and bought a 3RD Model Dragoon by Uberti! Fit & finish look absolutely wonderful. Took her apart and cleaned her up to get ready for the NRA Qualification Matches that one of the local Clubs is running starting the third Sunday of this month.

Just wondering what you guys stoke 'em up to charge wise? Seems that the cylinder is just a little smaller than my Walker. I figure on starting with 40 grains of 3Fg Goex and maybe going up around 45 grains or so. Does anyone here have any advice as to the best charge accuracy wise, and how much will she hold to the max?? I plan on using the usual ox-yoke wonder-wad like I do with the Walker.

Thanks to all in advance for your suggestions and input.

Dave
 
Most of the larger revolvers get their best accuracy with something in the 25 to 30 grain load. If the ball is too far down in the chambrer, try using an inert filler between the ball and powder. Many use products like Cream of Wheat, etc. for this. Just be careful not to put the filler in before the powder...don't ask how I know this!!
 
My Uberti 2nd Model Dragoon shoots best with 35 gr fffg real black powder or about 30 gr fffg 777 under a lubed felt wad and a .454 round ball.

I have used as much as 50 gr fffg real black and 777 under the same wad and ball; I believe the chamber might hold a bit more, but believe me, that much load in a revolver is adequate to do whatever you want (except accurately hit a target at 25 yards - accuracy is long gone with that load).

One time several years ago I was shooting at a public outdoor range with the Dragoon. Two stations down from me was a woman with a young boy about 10-11 years old; they were shooting a 22 semi-auto. There were two other guys shooting snubbies on the other side of the woman and boy and a range master behind us watching the whole show. I loaded the gun up with that max load and proceeded to empty it as fast as I could cock and fire. The last 4 shots were essentially blind as there was so much smoke it nobody could see the targets. The woman broke and ran. The boy cheered and yelled, "More, more!". The range master about fell off his stool laughing and then said in his most official voice, "Don't you EVER do that again!" The range was shut down for 5 minutes while we all waited for the smoke to clear. The boy came over and asked me what I was shooting, and I explained black powder to him. He asked me if he could shoot my gun, and I told him to go get his mother. He did, and when she said OK I let him shoot one cylinder - grinning from ear to ear. I never saw him again but I'll bet he shoots bp.
 
You got a good range then , when the boys with the hi buck scoped rifles would shoot a few and strut around til some old timer would walk up and bulls eye a few at 100yds they started saying the smoke was harming the glass on the scopes (wonder if it had anything to do with being outshot by a muzzle loader and open sights?? Do you think?? :rotf: Anyway that got bp off this range. Fred :hatsoff: (sorry I got of subject)
 
I seldom drop under 45 grains of black powder or the equivalent volume of a substitute with round ball loads. This level of accuracy is common among the various load combinations.

dragoon43loads.jpg


dragoonhead.JPG


these were shot with bare ball and no wad with cleaning the barrel between each cylinder full. The lubricated wads from Eastern Maine Shooting
Supplies are more rigid than wonderwads and have, for me, done a much better job of keeping the bore clean for extended shooting.
 
Thanks for the cereal suggestion, although I make a habbit out of restricting their diet to just powder, wad, and lead as my guns don't eat cereal :haha: . Seriously though, I have enough trouble seeing close-up with my tri-focals to be able to pour black into the chambers without spilling it all over the place. And the Walker likes a 50 grain charge as I've already hit a gong at 135 yards with it and also scored a 95 x 100 in competition. Very accurate at that loading level!

Thanks for your input!

Dave
 
I know what you mean about the smoke blocking-out your visibility. At our league's BP shoot when the line is hot we have 10 targets that are engaged at the same time. Depending on weather & wind conditions on any given day, sometimes we have to wait for the smoke to clear after the 1 or 2 folks next to you fires their gun, let alone 10 going off all at once!

I'm figuring on having the Dragoon with 40 grains in the left (weak) hand and the Walker in my strong (right) hand and trying a two-handed shoot at a close-up target with both going at the same time :shocked2: . Maybe I'll even be crazy enough to put an old shirt on the target frame just to see if the BP will catch it on fire like in the "Old West" shoot-outs! Doing this towards the end of the day near dusk would be really exciting to watch...may even invite a friend to videotape it for me. That way I'll be able to see what happened in front of the smoke cloud :) .

Glad to hear the story with the boy and the Mom. I'm sure his interest was at an all-time high, and you where there just at the right time for him to really get into it! Watching it on TV and actually getting in trigger time is two completely different things altogether :grin:

There just isn't enough time in a week to have all of the fun you could do with a BP revolver!

Thanks for the post!

Dave
 
Nice targets! :thumbsup: These look really good for one hand! The Qualification Matches are predominantly one-hand "Duelist" style competitions. That's sort of why I bought the Dragoon in the first place. A few ounces lighter, less barrel droopiness from the shorter length and still able to get the ball moving out of the barrel and to the target so that further on in the Qualifications the notorious wind won't be such a factor due to less "hang time" in the air for the balls :) .

Your posted numbers in your experiment have given me a confirmation on my starting point of 40 grains, with an eye for 45 gr. if need be. Thanks so much for your post!

Dave
 
Here's a fifty yard "duelist" group with a walker. Picture seems a bit degraded but the charge is 55 gr/vol pyrodex p
walkeroneh50.jpg


walkerhead.jpg

as I recall, this was a ball and 50 grains of pyrodex p or goex fffg


walker loads:
140 Grain Ball Average six rounds Extreme spread
55 Goex FFFg 1001 fps 54
60 Goex FFFg 1115 fps 46
60 Gr./Vol. Pyrodex P 1221 44
60 Gr./Vol. A Pioneer 974 80
60 Gr/Vol Swiss FFFg 1278 53
55 FFg 956 46
60 Gr./Vol. PyrodexRS 1045 35
37 Gr./Vol. H 777 1201 72

200 Grain Lee Bullet
40 Goex FFFg 927 40
45 Swiss FFFg 1074 33
45Gr/Vol Pyrodex P 1087 47

170Grain Original Pattern Picket Bullet
40 Grains Swiss FFFg 1031 36
Energy 402 ft/lbs
45 Grains Goex FFFg 1026 84
45 Grains Swiss FFFg 1158 35
506 ft/lbs
45 Gr/Vol. Pyrodex P 1035 57
 
Two questions: 1. What is a pickett bullet? 2. Are your chambers bigger than mine? Reason that I ask is that I'm using a .454 ball.

Dave
 
I suspect our chambers both measure about .450. This makes the 451s a bit loose with the 454s and 457s working about equally well. I just happened to have 457s at the time due to local supplies. Velocity isn't much different and neither is accuracy.

The picket or "sugar loaf bullet" is a kind of rifle bullet design that was applied to the earliest moulds for the Walker. Dixie has a blue steel mould that duplicates it as well as possible. They are something of a pain to deal with but surprisingly accurate once you have drilled and coned these seating stem to fit the sharp profile of the bullet (and stoned a slight bevel on the base).There is really no good reason to do this except for experimentation.
Walkercolt.jpg


the soldiers in the Us/Mexican war sometims loaded them sharp end down not having seen bullets other than round balls. RIP Ford, Medical officer and adjutant said that this was prime reason for burst cylinders.
 
mec is absolutely right. R.I.P. Ford put the blow-up problem on reverse loaded slugs but it was almost certainly the maker, Eli Whitney, using sub-grade iron in the construction. Ford also noted the best shot among his Texans bowled over a Mexican soldier at "120 yards"...neat trick if it was the actual range, actually a neat trick at anything beyond 75 yards! He also put the old story about 500 being issued to the Texans as well. Ford specified that 180 were issued and some 90 odd turned in.
 
When I saw this bullet, I didn't hold out much hope for accuracy. Then got this offhand group and a couple of others out to 40 yards. One time, I forgot to slightly bevel the flat base of the bullet to help with straight seating and scattered shots all over the target.
picketloads.jpg
 
interesting post mec. is 'beveling the base' done to insure the slug enters the chamber in a straight line so-to-speak? have you ever tryed any Lee conicals with the reduced heel feature? I'm unsure but IIRC the slugs meant for the Ruger Old Army are .457 dia., they are 230 gr. weight
 
Thanks for the info. I think that I'll stick with just plain old balls, although it's nice to learn more of the history of the times though.

Nice sepia tone on the last post too! Makes it look like the 1850's, even the wrench is correct to the period.

Thanks again!

Dave
 
Yeh. the slight bevel lets them sit on the hambers and seat without shearing. Lee conicals work very well in the dragoon and would be useful in the walker too. for all practical purposes though, I do believe the balls are the way to go. That Buffalo bullet is .457 specifically for the ruger old army. seating .457 projectiles in the Uberti chambers is usually easy with no strain on the lever with results as good as but no better than .454s. It might be a different story with pietta or the Euro Arms revolvers as they usually have .448 chamber mouths.

The heavier lee conical in .457 fits under the ram on the Ruger but is too long for any other revolver I've tried them in- including the Dragoon and The walker. That needle nosed picket bullet is a close wiggle fit in the walker and Ive compared the opening with my pictures of an original Walker. they appear to have the same measurements and would not admit a wider or longer bullet. The dixie picket bullets are 170 grains which is lighter than most gestimations of the original bullets. I don't see how the originals could have been any bigger in any measurement though.
 
How much do the Lee conicals weigh and how much do they cost? Do I have to adjust the powder charge to make room?

Thanks again,

Dave
 
You have to cast your own from a lee mould. with the allow, I'm using, they weigh 220 grains while the ordinary Lee .451+or-, weigh about 200. They will work in most or all of the percussion revolvers.
 
Hello Smokin. the Lee conical mold throws a .456 slug with a reduced 'heel' for easy loading.
I use this slug in my ROA with very good results.
it weighs 220 grs. the original round ball is about 145 grs.
far as I know the only slug available for purchase for your pistol is the Buffalo 'ballet', quite expensive and I'm unsure if it is made in the correct diameter for you revolver.
if you wish I can send you a 'sample pack' of Lee conicals I cast for my ROA for a minimun charge, try them and if you like then buy a mold and cast your own. measure the chamber size of your revolver and post so I will know if it will fit. should be around .450 or little less.
Blizzard.
 
Sounds like a great offer from a kind ML person! I'll be taking out the Dragoon on Sunday for the NRA Qualification Match that my local BP league is holding for the very first time. The league chairman has quite a collection, including a copy of the very same revolver, so I'll ask him to measure the gun or tell me what it is.

I'll let you know on Monday. Till then, wish me luck!

Dave
 
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