Can anybody give a testimony to this brand of powder? How good or bad is it? I just ordered some but somewhat hesitant to try something new. I know Goex works great for the target matches I shoot in. Thanks for any replies.
:hmm:
:hmm:
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KIK Black Powder?
- Thread starter kvistads
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Russianblood
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I use KIK 2f in my .62 and .75 smoothies with no problems at all. It's just as good as GOEX and cheaper.
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I use KIK 2F in my .54 and .58 rifles. I LOVE IT!
I'm sure you will too.
Idaho PRB
I'm sure you will too.
Idaho PRB
MikeChapin
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I've been using KIK for the last year and a half and really like it. I used to use GOEX 3F for everything except my shotgun. I swapped KIK 2F for the GOEX 3F grain for grain. The only problem I had was that my Santa Fe started blowing patches. I had to go to a smaller ball with a thicker patch to keep the patches together.
I use the 3F in my .36 and .32. They seem to like the little hotter powder better than the GOEX. KIK seems to burn a little cleaner than GOEX. Not much but enough to notice.
I have nothing against GOEX and would go back to it in a minute if I couldn't get KIK. I just like KIK better. The price is a little cheaper and it burns a little cleaner.
I use the 3F in my .36 and .32. They seem to like the little hotter powder better than the GOEX. KIK seems to burn a little cleaner than GOEX. Not much but enough to notice.
I have nothing against GOEX and would go back to it in a minute if I couldn't get KIK. I just like KIK better. The price is a little cheaper and it burns a little cleaner.
Mad Professor
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Boar-dilly said:
Kik comes from one of the Eastern European countries, (Hungary or Chech Republic ?) soemone here will know for sure
Sharp Shooter
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I think I am going to try some of this stuff. I heard it burns cleaner than Goex. Just a little but enough to tell.
Guest
Well hey now. I never even heard of this stuff. Where do I get some? I would like to try it.
You can get it at[url] Powderinc.com[/url] for around $8 a can. By the time I got it shipped to my door here in GA, a case of 25 lbs came to $9.58 per can. I bought some of the Skirmish brand (made in China) for re enactments at $5.75 a can. 1.48 a can each on shipping and it comes to $7.23 a can. It is 1F. Here's the link below...
[url] http://www.powderinc.com[/url]/
[url] http://www.powderinc.com[/url]/
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ole berthey
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If powders are about the same price, and about the same quality I like to buy the made in the good ole USA kind. after reading the Elephant powder post that I ran, and Mad Monk responded to it. I don't see how any powder company sells as cheap as they do. I like to keep my money in the home land as much as I can. Just my 2 cents worth.
paulvallandigham
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The cost of the can the powder comes in is proably higher than the cost of making the powder in the can, if truth were told. Markup is a trade secret, but 400% and higher would not be unheard of. This is true with many consumer goods. I worked for a Potatoe Chip company years ago when I was in Law School, and the company stopped producing 5 cent bags of chips when the packaging cost more than the small amount of chips in each bag. The first summer I worked for the company, you could only buy the 5 cent bags if you bought a package of 10, designed to be put in lunch pails and boxes for little kids. The next summer, even those were gone, and the cheapest bag of chips cost $.10 !
The only way companies stay competitive is by mass production, which cuts the unit cost down to almost nothing. That is the way they can transfer price paid to paying for expensive labor, and employee benefits.
The only way companies stay competitive is by mass production, which cuts the unit cost down to almost nothing. That is the way they can transfer price paid to paying for expensive labor, and employee benefits.
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Thanks for the link to PowderInc. I just ordered a case from them & they were a good deal cheaper than anywhere else I've found. Goex was $11.10/lb including shipping & hazmat from Arkansas to Seattle.....good deal! I love this forum, I would never have found out about this company if it wasn't for the other members here.
Paul,
There have only been two shipments of KIK small-arms black powder into the U.S. Here is the data from the ITC Dataweb. Propellant powders are code 3601. You just have to know who ships BP and who ships smokeless.
In May 2000 GOEX imported a container holding 26,369 pounds. Packed in tin cans in Slovenia at the KIK-Kamnik plant. Landed duty paid value was $3.50 per pound P.O.E.
In Nov. 2004 somebody (NOT GOEX) brought in a container holding 29,414 pounds with a landed duty paid value of $3.54 per pound. Packed in tin cans at the plant.
Now for background.
This KIK-Kamink company had been part of a large munitions manufacturing company until the breakup of the former "East Bloc" countries. After Slovenia was formed out of the break up of Czechoslovakia this KIK-Kamink was "privatized".
GOEX had bought powder from KIK in 1998 to help their business as they got Minden up and running.
When GOEX had them produce the rifle type powder for the May 2000 shipment GOEX had to literally go over there and teach them how to do it. The plant had made fireworks powders and powders for the military but they had not made small-arms powder in a very long time.
The 2000 shipment of KIK was made using a commercial alder charcoal. The powder being a good bit faster than what GOEX was producing at that time. Before they straightened out their charcoal supplier problem. I would say that recent GOEX production is just about as fast as that KIK.
The thing about the 2000 shipment of KIK was that the grain size was soo fine. The KIK, even though it fell within the U.S. grain size ranges, was very fine for the size. The 3F KIK was murder on patches. Even the #40 cotton drill tended to shred with that.
The 2000 shipment of KIK was low in density. The loading density was around 0.90 g/cc while GOEX and others were over 1.00 g/cc. The KIK was poorly polished. As seen under the microscope and in its ballistics. This shipment was noted for throwing flyers. You could figure at least two flyers in a 5 shot string with one going fairly wide.
But it did burn clean!!
When the Nov. 2004 shipment arrived from Slovenia I was asked if I wanted to look at some and declined. Recent postings dealing with this powder suggests that they may have straightened out the density/polish thing seen in the first shipment.
There was mention of Lidu bp in this thread.
That came into the U.S. in April 2005. Somebody figured to do it legally this time.
ITC shows 37,732 pounds, 59 cents per pound at P.O.E., landed duty paid value.
As something of a warning. If somebody were to bring this into the U.S. in quantity and really push it you could expect to see the others guys getting out of the business. And once that Chinese powder would be the only one available you would be paying for it what you pay for GOEX or Schuetzen.
There have only been two shipments of KIK small-arms black powder into the U.S. Here is the data from the ITC Dataweb. Propellant powders are code 3601. You just have to know who ships BP and who ships smokeless.
In May 2000 GOEX imported a container holding 26,369 pounds. Packed in tin cans in Slovenia at the KIK-Kamnik plant. Landed duty paid value was $3.50 per pound P.O.E.
In Nov. 2004 somebody (NOT GOEX) brought in a container holding 29,414 pounds with a landed duty paid value of $3.54 per pound. Packed in tin cans at the plant.
Now for background.
This KIK-Kamink company had been part of a large munitions manufacturing company until the breakup of the former "East Bloc" countries. After Slovenia was formed out of the break up of Czechoslovakia this KIK-Kamink was "privatized".
GOEX had bought powder from KIK in 1998 to help their business as they got Minden up and running.
When GOEX had them produce the rifle type powder for the May 2000 shipment GOEX had to literally go over there and teach them how to do it. The plant had made fireworks powders and powders for the military but they had not made small-arms powder in a very long time.
The 2000 shipment of KIK was made using a commercial alder charcoal. The powder being a good bit faster than what GOEX was producing at that time. Before they straightened out their charcoal supplier problem. I would say that recent GOEX production is just about as fast as that KIK.
The thing about the 2000 shipment of KIK was that the grain size was soo fine. The KIK, even though it fell within the U.S. grain size ranges, was very fine for the size. The 3F KIK was murder on patches. Even the #40 cotton drill tended to shred with that.
The 2000 shipment of KIK was low in density. The loading density was around 0.90 g/cc while GOEX and others were over 1.00 g/cc. The KIK was poorly polished. As seen under the microscope and in its ballistics. This shipment was noted for throwing flyers. You could figure at least two flyers in a 5 shot string with one going fairly wide.
But it did burn clean!!
When the Nov. 2004 shipment arrived from Slovenia I was asked if I wanted to look at some and declined. Recent postings dealing with this powder suggests that they may have straightened out the density/polish thing seen in the first shipment.
There was mention of Lidu bp in this thread.
That came into the U.S. in April 2005. Somebody figured to do it legally this time.
ITC shows 37,732 pounds, 59 cents per pound at P.O.E., landed duty paid value.
As something of a warning. If somebody were to bring this into the U.S. in quantity and really push it you could expect to see the others guys getting out of the business. And once that Chinese powder would be the only one available you would be paying for it what you pay for GOEX or Schuetzen.
