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Ottoman Guns

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"Ricky, I believe you are right about the cartridge boxes (palaskas) being used for the pistols. Though I have not examined any in person. And I have had a difficult time finding examples of original paper cartridges from the region."

I've never even seen a photo, much less an original example of a paper cartridge that was documented from the Ottoman region. Curious. But there is enough written evidence that paper cartridges were in common use (as they were World wide for that matter).
Maybe I mentioned this before, but can't remember. Years ago, I once tried an experiment. I took one of my Ottoman pistols to the shooting range. I strapped a belt with a palaska with 5 pre-made paper cartridges around my waist. And a suma loading rod around my neck with a leather strap. All of these palaskas hold about 5 pre-made cartridges. Which later on made sense to me why they are all shaped as they are. So, to proceed in loading the pistol.
At half-cock I extracted a cartridge from the brass container, tore off one end, primed the pan, (which we don't prime first today for safety reasons) closed the frizzen, then inserted the rest of the powder (about 30 grains of FFG), ball, and paper (for wadding) into the barrel and rammed it home with the suma rod. And was ready to fire. Only a small amount of practice was required to be able to load/reload in about 30 seconds. So I could visualize a warrior on horseback (at a stand still LOL) being able to reload a pair of kubur (horse) pistols in about one minute using this method. It's really quite fast. I found the palaska a pretty clever device. With a flick of the thumb you open the lid and grab a cartridge, And another flick of the thumb closes the lid. Much faster than dealing with the outer flap of a leather pouch. And the ramrod suspended from the neck was much faster than retrieving the rod from under the pistol stock and replacing it after reloading (or dropping it/loosing it). It was an interesting experiment.

Rick
Balkan Pistol-1 001 (Medium).jpg
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I have two Palaskas ,one very like the plainer example though can add nothing new as to their utility but pretty things and was please to get them. I have hunted with the carbines but used the normal patched ball loading. Game in our forested hills is useualy met with at a fleeting short range mostly . Regards Rudyard
 
After seeing the Royal Armouries examples, ottoman guns are actually larger than I what I had thought. The Wallace collection must have had smaller examples.
The photo you posted from the Wallace collection showed only Caucasian guns and a Greek Kariophili, slender guns indeed.

Regarding Palaskas, I'vejust picked one up at auction that is nearly identical to the plainer example Rick posted. The auction photo was poor, but the price was right.
9850EC80-FDEC-4042-9A96-B0881600DC1D.jpeg


I'm hoping to have some more interesting information and photos soon as I've arranged a meeting at the workshop of one of the Bulgarian reenactors who is also a master gunsmith that built and restored the guns in my previous posts on pages 13 & 14 of this thread in the next few days. Fly out tomorrow.
 
The photo you posted from the Wallace collection showed only Caucasian guns and a Greek Kariophili, slender guns indeed.
Sorry, that was confusing on my part. I had forgotten to take a good picture of the long arms display case in the Wallace collection, so I had posted the photo I did take in that part of the collection, which was the pistols.

I did take these, showing part of the case, trying (and failing) to get a clear image of the Indian revolver:
01A5ECA5-FF75-4B77-82EC-9986731641C9.jpeg

8DC377C5-AC77-45DB-9A31-85031D0AC9C4.jpeg
 
I have two Palaskas ,one very like the plainer example though can add nothing new as to their utility but pretty things and was please to get them. I have hunted with the carbines but used the normal patched ball loading. Game in our forested hills is useualy met with at a fleeting short range mostly . Regards Rudyard
Hi Rudyard

I believe these palaskas would not be very useful for hunting purposes. And a patched round ball, even in these smooth bore pistols is more accurate than the loose ball and paper wad. So there was likely a sacrifice in accuracy to gain the speed in reloading. And a man at close range is a big target. That's why I've guessed the little palaskas were primarily used with horse pistols while on horse back.

Rick
 
The photo you posted from the Wallace collection showed only Caucasian guns and a Greek Kariophili, slender guns indeed.

Regarding Palaskas, I'vejust picked one up at auction that is nearly identical to the plainer example Rick posted. The auction photo was poor, but the price was right.
View attachment 224371

I'm hoping to have some more interesting information and photos soon as I've arranged a meeting at the workshop of one of the Bulgarian reenactors who is also a master gunsmith that built and restored the guns in my previous posts on pages 13 & 14 of this thread in the next few days. Fly out tomorrow.
Congrats on the palaska. Yes, it looks just like one of mine. Interesting that one with a Greek origin will often bring 2-3 times the price. Always been that way.

WOW!! Looking forward to your meeting with the builder. Please take photos of both of you - and anything else. LOL Maybe convince him to join our Forum with some translation software.

Rick
 
I’ve just returned from my first meeting with the Bulgarian master (I’ll leave his name out in case he joins the forum soon, then he can introduce himself if he chooses) and all I can say is WOW! Hitchhiked a few hours deep into the mountains and was not disappointed. Wonderful resource of knowledge and exquisite craftsmanship. I will write more in a few days after another meeting but will leave a few photos for now.

A couple projects for customers
5F45E7FA-CC69-4467-BB48-2E10A940DB3D.jpeg


Patch box made from bone, all the inlays here are new made by him copying an original he has since nearly all were missing
557B0E7F-3A78-40F7-85A8-BA8F3C7BA4C2.jpeg


Bone inlays
14C7C37E-44F2-415A-8497-83CE216CCD6C.jpeg


Rozetki he makes by hand in a more difficult way than I imagined, using horn for the black area instead of an epoxy
26AD9296-8E44-4340-B53D-8A74F961F82B.jpeg


Future guns, including a percussion conversion and an Italian lock for a Čibuklija he’s working on
B82F9009-340C-4E6A-A09A-30BE4A92C600.jpeg

54C1BB8C-4519-453A-AEE7-C6A1F83740C2.jpeg


2 finished Boyliyas with new made stocks and inlays by him
B30E6CED-753A-484F-A14B-B6E0CAD8FF6D.jpeg


More photos and info to follow in coming days
 
I’ve just returned from my first meeting with the Bulgarian master (I’ll leave his name out in case he joins the forum soon, then he can introduce himself if he chooses) and all I can say is WOW! Hitchhiked a few hours deep into the mountains and was not disappointed. Wonderful resource of knowledge and exquisite craftsmanship. I will write more in a few days after another meeting but will leave a few photos for now.

A couple projects for customers
View attachment 225421

Patch box made from bone, all the inlays here are new made by him copying an original he has since nearly all were missing
View attachment 225422

Bone inlays
View attachment 225423

Rozetki he makes by hand in a more difficult way than I imagined, using horn for the black area instead of an epoxy
View attachment 225424

Future guns, including a percussion conversion and an Italian lock for a Čibuklija he’s working on
View attachment 225425
View attachment 225426

2 finished Boyliyas with new made stocks and inlays by him
View attachment 225427

More photos and info to follow in coming days
Cyten: Thank you so much for the wonderful photos!! Just great seeing all those Bulgarian and Ottoman locks.
Those rozetki are impossible to obtain in the USA.

Rick
 
Hello, I'm Bobi the restorer from Bulgaria. As of today, I am a member of the forum thanks to Cyten . I will be very pleased to discount Ottoman and Balkan weapons.
Hello Bobi

Welcome to the Forum. Many thanks for joining us. It's good to see muzzle loading shooting is still alive and well in Bulgaria.
Your restoration work is certainly from a master craftsman. Looking forward to discussions and more examples of your work. Beautiful work on restoring those Boyliyas !!! You are very much an artist.
Two original Ottoman/Turkish guns I have that are in shooting condition.

Again, welcome.

Rick
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Има ли форма, в която я забивате/притискате, или правите всяка част от декорацията поотделно?

Is there a form you hammer/press it against, or do you do every part of the decoration individually?
I make each element with a separate tool, and the base is made of lead.
 
So the design is cast into the lead, and the sheet metal is tapped into the lead form with special tools? Or has the lead block gotten the design tapped INTO it over time from the embossing?
 
Имате ли форма, в която забивате/притискате, или правите всяка част от декорацията поотделно?

So the design is cast into the lead, and the sheet metal is tapped into the lead form with special tools? Or has the lead block gotten the design tapped INTO it over time from the embossing?
Don't pretend, but it's hard for me to explain since I don't speak English.
 
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