.54 charge workup

Kmcmichael said:

May I ask what tool you used for coning?
I have coned a couple of barrels and had no effect on accuracy.
Logic does point to a patch problem but those are pretty thick patches. The are still worth examining.

I have ordered a .54 Woodsrunner and will likely cone it before shooting.

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The best... Mr. Joe Lane Wood, The Firelock Shop
5311 Briar St., Amarillo, Texas 79109 Ph: 806-352-3032
Email: [email protected]

Rangefogger said:

Answer one
I had read everywhere that coning does not effect accuracy, after trying it, I am doubting that opinion, and want to see for myself.

Answer two
I’ll consider it enough proof for myself personally if there’s a noticeable difference. Whether you do or not doesn’t really make a big difference to me, you can still cone away to your heart’s content if that’s what you like.

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What are you going to do if the new barrel shoots larger groups than the coned barrel?

I built an Early VA flint rifle from TVM components in .54 cal. a couple of years ago. I hand-coned the barrel, more for loading convenience than anything else. I've seen no accuracy issues with it at all. My load here in New Mexico elk country is 110 gr F2 behind a patched .530 round ball.

The .54 that I have is extremely accurate with 60 grns of 3F Goex. Velocity is right up there at about 1200 fps and it hits with authority. I've killed deer with that velocity in the past.

Rangefogger said:

Yeah I tried every load in 5 grain increments from 55 to 100 but the 60 grain group was 3 inches at best and all other groups were 5 inches or more at 50 yards, that would be unacceptable for good shot placement. maybe I’ll try going over 100 grains and see what happens. It’s a 1-70 twist barrel btw.

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check your patches for blow by. if your getting blowby bump the ball up to a 535

Erwan said:

Normally it's all OK...
The power of a rifle bullet can be determined by calculating its kinetic energy, which is measured in joules (J).
The formula for calculating the kinetic energy of an object is as follows:

KE = (1/2)mv^2 or 1/2mv²

Where: KE = kinetic energy m = mass of the object v = velocity of the object.
This will give you the kinetic energy of the ball in joules. Remember that the kinetic energy of a bullet can vary depending on the load used and the distance.

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Be careful of the units. To get joules - the mass needs to be in grams and the velocity in m/s (meters per second) If you use velocity in ft/sec you need to use mass in slugs (or lbs/32 ft/sec/sec acceleration due to gravity) and you would get ft-lbs of energy. The difference is between metric units and imperial units of measure.

Rangefogger said:

I have a .54 woodsrunner that I just finished up recently, and decided yesterday would be the day I’d take it to the range to work up a good accurate charge and sight in, I was able to get cloverleafs at 50 yards after trying many different powder charges and ball patch combos. I found the most accurate charge to be

55 grains 2F Swiss
.530 RB
.020 patch

I tried charges from 55 grains to 100 grains in 5 grain increments but nothing could come even close to the 55 grain charge, so I left it at that and sighted in at 50 and 100 yards (100 yd with shoulders of rear sight at base of the front sight).

It only gives me about 1300 FPS average according to my chronograph, which I’m wondering if it’s adequate for deer and possibly black bear or elk. Does anyone else use this low of a charge in their 54?

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I attached the results of the Hornady Ballistic Calculator for this scenario of a .53 round ball at 1300 ft/sec muzzle velocity. Notice at 100 yds your energy is at 424 ft-lbs. even at the muzzle, the energy is 844 ft-lbs. Some people believe if you drop below 800 ft-lbs it is not acceptable for a clean kill on big game. I would definitely try using a larger load for elk. I would also recommend Dutch Shultz "Black Powder Rifle Accuracy" You can download it from the internet. It shows different patterns and what causes them. Also recommends an excellent lube for patches for consistency. I would also use 3Fg. It will give you higher velocities. Change one thing at a time.

BP Addict said:

This may be a little off topic but when I took the NRA Muzzleloader Instructor class (had to take the student course first) we had to keep five shots within the center of a 9” paper plate @ 25 yards. I’ve also done it at longer distances.

The cool thing about paper plates is they’re cheap (42 for $1.25 @ Dollar Tree). The best part is they’re the approximate size of the “Kill Zone” on an animal.

55 grains sound fine for hunting paper. I’d prefer something a little higher for critters. If you can keep five shots on a paper plate with 70, 80, or 100 grains at normal hunting distances, you’re good to go!

Just my two cents.

Walt

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I sometimes use packaged soft tortillas as targets. They are easy to tack up and critters can eat the trash for you. Make a good snack if you like and come out of the grocery budget.. not your shooting budget.

Oh boy! This is a sore subject! Coning AND hunting! Hah!

I'd like to see 75-100 grs FFG behind a .50 or .54 PRB for deer to moose as a hunter. Can It be done with 50 to 60 grs? Yes. But not reliably 100% of the time.

Why did you cone a new barrel right off the bat?????? That in itself throws everything out the window right from the get go. You had a 'known' and changed it to an 'unknown' before even trying the so called 'unknown'. Not wise.

Rangefogger said:

Answer one
I had read everywhere that coning does not effect accuracy, after trying it, I am doubting that opinion, and want to see for myself.

Answer two
I’ll consider it enough proof for myself personally if there’s a noticeable difference. Whether you do or not doesn’t really make a big difference to me, you can still cone away to your heart’s content if that’s what you like.

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I am not a proponent for coning nor am I against it.

If I had doubts about coning I would have tried shooting for accuracy before and after coning, not after and only guessing what the accuracy was previous.

I hope your new barrel shoots better than "cloverleafs at 50 yards".

Rangefogger said:

I have a .54 woodsrunner that I just finished up recently, and decided yesterday would be the day I’d take it to the range to work up a good accurate charge and sight in, I was able to get cloverleafs at 50 yards after trying many different powder charges and ball patch combos. I found the most accurate charge to be

55 grains 2F Swiss
.530 RB
.020 patch

I tried charges from 55 grains to 100 grains in 5 grain increments but nothing could come even close to the 55 grain charge, so I left it at that and sighted in at 50 and 100 yards (100 yd with shoulders of rear sight at base of the front sight).

It only gives me about 1300 FPS average according to my chronograph, which I’m wondering if it’s adequate for deer and possibly black bear or elk. Does anyone else use this low of a charge in their 54?

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try over powder wad or patch also try 110 to 120. last try 3f. all of my 1:70's like 90 to 120 charge some 2f some 3f

You stated that it is a green mountain barrel if that is so larger ball and thinner patch would help. In my 50 I shot a .501 ball and a .01 patch. You have to try different patch and ball combinations before you start changing barrels.

To answer one of the questions in the original post, a .530 or .535 round ball at 1300 fps is fine for deer sized game out to 100 yards or so. I have read in old books (please do not ask for a citation from an obscure book that i read 40+ years ago!) that the old timers loaded with just enough powder to get the supersonic crack, not knowing the reason behind the phenomenon, and that was considered an ideal load. They were probably getting 1200 fps or so, and it worked fine, apparently. I've shot several deer with a .44 revolver loaded with roundball @ 1100 fps. (legal where I live, and I limit my shots to 20 yards) with good results, and your .54 load has equal or more killing power at 100 yards than my .44 has at the muzzle. I use 60 grains of powder in my .54's, and I get right at 1500 fps using 3f Swiss or Pyro P. Kills deer dead.

with 55gr. in a 54, i promise you it ain't gonna bounce off. i have no idea why people think a hotter charge is needed. i used to bow hunt with a recurve. i have killed several deer with a 43# bow, never lost one. it is all about location, put it in the spot and they will die ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

45man said:

My friend bought one and of course it is a wonderful kit that makes me jealous. Looking at the bore, it has deep rifling so I would say a .535 ball and .020" patch is what is needed. .530 is for those button rifled TC's.
I shoot an H&H barrel Hawken I built long ago and 100 gr with the combo will touch shots at 50 yards. I once hit 4 out of 5 chickens (IHMSA targets) at 200 meters offhand by upping to 120 gr.
Deer never take a step after hit with it.

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You'd have a hard time seating with .014 pillow ticking/.016 with a 535 ball and that's after
Lee Shavers (bore treatment) and Daryls crowning treatment (ALR forum) . 530 works with above patches and no hammer needed in my Woods Runner /Ed