Brand new

Nonsense.

Every time this topic comes up we see two very different viewpoints expressed.

1. If you don't buy a high quality, high dollar gun right away you are wasting your time and money. With a cheap gun you will get frustrated and give up in short order.

2. It is possible to get into the sport without spending a fortune. A cheap gun can still be fun and you might even learn a little about how to make it work better.

I'm glad I didn't read all the negative comments about starting with a cheap gun when I was starting out two years ago as it might have scared me away from even trying a muzzleloader, since I didn't have the budget for a high end gun.

But I didn't know any better and bought a Traditions flintlock as the first muzzleloader I owned. I still haven't learned my lesson as I now own 5 flintlocks and they are all Traditions.

mmb617 said:

Every time this topic comes up we see two very different viewpoints expressed.

1. If you don't buy a high quality, high dollar gun right away you are wasting your time and money. With a cheap gun you will get frustrated and give up in short order.

2. It is possible to get into the sport without spending a fortune. A cheap gun can still be fun and you might even learn a little about how to make it work better.

I'm glad I didn't read all the negative comments about starting with a cheap gun when I was starting out two years ago as it might have scared me away from even trying a muzzleloader, since I didn't have the budget for a high end gun.

But I didn't know any better and bought a Traditions flintlock as the first muzzleloader I owned. I still haven't learned my lesson as I now own 5 flintlocks and they are all Traditions.

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I do get the point of view that higher quality yields better out of the box results, and I get wanting to spare newbies the frustration.
I also get that a cheaper starter will definitely take more patience and more fiddling with before it gets really reliable.

So I figure I’ll get a Traditions Kentucky flinter, put it together, fiddle with it… figure the whole flintlock thing out. I like to tinker, and if you’d seen some of the bikes and cars that have passed through my hands you’d have nightmare visions of it ending up a pseudo sci-fi frankengun… and I wouldn’t immediately scoff at the sentiment.

To all, thank you for your honest opinions. It’s what I came here for.

welcome aboard. there are always those who want a lambo for their first car.

This society has forgotten how to save money and have nice things. Instant gratification is what it's all about these days.

Welcome

Welcome from Pa.

mmb617 said:

Every time this topic comes up we see two very different viewpoints expressed.

1. If you don't buy a high quality, high dollar gun right away you are wasting your time and money. With a cheap gun you will get frustrated and give up in short order.

2. It is possible to get into the sport without spending a fortune. A cheap gun can still be fun and you might even learn a little about how to make it work better.

I'm glad I didn't read all the negative comments about starting with a cheap gun when I was starting out two years ago as it might have scared me away from even trying a muzzleloader, since I didn't have the budget for a high end gun.

But I didn't know any better and bought a Traditions flintlock as the first muzzleloader I owned. I still haven't learned my lesson as I now own 5 flintlocks and they are all Traditions.

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We didn't have the Internet when I started. The only builders I saw were in the Muzzle Blasts magazine. Most folks I've shot with over my 30-plus years in this sport had factory guns. Many still do except for those few who either had the money to buy custom or built a kit themselves.

I can do very well at the matches with my CVA Percussion Hawken. I like competitive shooting but winning is not always my goal. Having fun is. Believe it or not, when you come in first all the time, there is no challenge. I buy, sell, and trade Muzzies so I'm always working up a load on something new. Am I usually in the top five? Sometimes. Am I literally having a Blast? You betcha! I enjoy working up a load and tweaking the gun to get the best from it. It's one of the things that keeps me in the hobby.

My only problem with Traditions is they always seem to find a way to not honor the warranty. They won't even answer my emails anymore!

Walt

Colonialnerd said:

I do get the point of view that higher quality yields better out of the box results, and I get wanting to spare newbies the frustration.
I also get that a cheaper starter will definitely take more patience and more fiddling with before it gets really reliable.

So I figure I’ll get a Traditions Kentucky flinter, put it together, fiddle with it… figure the whole flintlock thing out. I like to tinker, and if you’d seen some of the bikes and cars that have passed through my hands you’d have nightmare visions of it ending up a pseudo sci-fi frankengun… and I wouldn’t immediately scoff at the sentiment.

To all, thank you for your honest opinions. It’s what I came here for.

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I think you'll be fine with your decision. If you really get hooked you can always think about something better.

I would completely read the manual. If you don't and have a problem they will not honor the warranty. I suspect it may be worse on a kit gun because they have little control over its build. I have had very little success with their Customer Service other than the lack thereof. I own seven and my Buckmaster will be the last from them!

Good Luck!

Walt

Sidney Smith said:

If you're unwilling to spend some money on a sport then IMO you shouldn't bother at all then. I'm sorry but I don't buy the Traditions experience. My grandson has one and within two years he got a better gun. If you really want to start at the bottom then don't be surprised when all your results are at the bottom. If you can live with that great.

Noone is saying you have to spend multiple thousands of dollars, but in order to really enjoy muzzleloading you may have to spend $1000 plus. I think most people can afford that these days. A Kibler won't set you back much more than that and you'll get a gun and the experiences that go with it will be orders if magnitude above the Traditions experience.

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Obviously a Kibler is going to be vastly superior to a traditions and I agree 110% that if you can afford a Kibler or similar rifle that you are way better off going that route. His question though was not "should I get a Kibler or a traditions?" He was basically saying he could get a traditions, or get nothing and never experience muzzleloading. I disagree that we should tell a potentially new muzzleloading enthusiast to either go big or go home. As I said I started with a traditions and it led me to where I am at today. Today I own a Kibler Colonial as well as several other muzzleloaders that are far superior to a traditions gun, but if not for that first traditions flintlock 25 years ago I probably wouldn't even have gotten to where I am today, I would have pursued a different hobby entirely. I respect your opinion,and I agree starting out with a quality gun is the way to go, but only if that is an option.

Comfortably_Numb said:

This society has forgotten how to save money and have nice things. Instant gratification is what it's all about these days.

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I would say society has forgotten how to enjoy life and having money and nice things is what it's all about these days. "Nice things" is a subjective term and, in my opinion ,a shallow materialistic term. You may have "things" you consider "nice" that will impress some people, but other people will be unimpressed and look down their nose at you.

The happiest people I know have worked hard their whole life and by today's standards don't own "nice things". Here's some words of wisdom I was told once as a young boy; It's not having what you want, but wanting what you have.

So maybe not paint with such a brood brush not knowing everyone's situation. Not everyone has to have or can have the best to enjoy life and some ,like myself, enjoy tinkering on things. I have an old rusted out 95 Dodge truck with 210,000 miles, that 2 or 3 times a year I'm fixing something on it. I have enough saved to go buy a "nice" truck but my gratification comes in keeping that old thing running for as long as I can. Different strokes for different folks I guess. Carry on friend.

Sidney Smith said:

If you're unwilling to spend some money on a sport then IMO you shouldn't bother at all then. I'm sorry but I don't buy the Traditions experience. My grandson has one and within two years he got a better gun. If you really want to start at the bottom then don't be surprised when all your results are at the bottom. If you can live with that great.

Noone is saying you have to spend multiple thousands of dollars, but in order to really enjoy muzzleloading you may have to spend $1000 plus. I think most people can afford that these days. A Kibler won't set you back much more than that and you'll get a gun and the experiences that go with it will be orders if magnitude above the Traditions experience.

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Muzzleloading, the sport of kings.

Colonialnerd said:

Ok, so I’m brand new to muzzle loading. I’m getting into it to participate in Primitive Biathlon. Given that I’m new to the sport, I don’t want to spend a grand on a hobby that I may not get further into, and I certainly don’t want to booger up a high price kit.

All of that jabbering out of the way…. Traditions Kentucky Flintlock seems like a pretty good starter. Low price, less risk if I booger it up or don’t get super into the hobby.

I’ve read sometimes there are frizzen issues, but that aside what is the common opinion?

Decent starter or jump directly to a more expensive Indian made English Trade Gun?

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You mention that your interest is participating in a primitive biathlon.
I think the first thing you need to do is check the regulations of the event. There could be some restrictions on what firearms can be used. It could be flintlock only, or percussion only, or there could be caliber restrictions, or barrel length, or sight restrictions, or whatever.
Check with experienced competitors in that type of event and see what they are using.

Traditions flintlocks are the least expensive you can buy today, and they perform like it: lowest price, lowest performance, their product fits a niche buyer to a tee.

Uncle Miltie said:

Traditions flintlocks are the least expensive you can buy today, and they perform like it: lowest price, lowest performance, their product fits a niche buyer to a tee.

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"Niche buyer" = the poor, got it.

Saw a CVA(Traditions) out shoot a custom rifle once, same shooter two different guns. Well I'm off to go be poor somewhere else.......

Colonialnerd said:

I like your style Squint. I’m the same with just about everything I own. I like to tinker. I like to fiddle with it. Back in my biker days, my bike seldom looked the same week to week… same as when I was into air cooled VW’s. The tinkering and problem solving is half the fun.

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Yup, the challenge to jet 4 carburetors on a motorcycle would stump most people these days .

I have no problems with guns like CVA and Traditions. While not the most expensive guns in my collection, they are certainly not the worst either.

If you're a flinter, starting off with cheap junk will only make you frustrated and dislike muzzleloading. Buy something decent, even if used, you'll be better off for it. If you're a capper, Traditions and the like will be OK for a start. Semper Fi.

kyron4 said:

"Niche buyer" = the poor, got it.

Saw a CVA(Traditions) out shoot a custom rifle once, same shooter two different guns. Well I'm off to go be poor somewhere else.......

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Not poor, but cheap. For some, cheapest is best. And many muzzleloaders are unwilling to pay for good stuff not because they don't have the $$, they are just too tight to part with it. The locks on Traditions flintlocks are the worst you can get, and are a waste of valuable resources and time to get them to work.

Banjoman said:

View attachment 216810View attachment 216811
I have no problems with guns like CVA and Traditions. While not the most expensive guns in my collection, they are certainly not the worst either.

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These are not flintlocks though which is what the topic is about.