Brown Bess ID help please

Family heirloom Musket with Provenance to French Indian War Veteran as owner . have verified he was with Wolfe at Quebec battle In September of 1759 , trying to confirm this musket is old enough to have been there too … overall length 55 1/2 inches long , barrel 39 inches , sadly badly pitted …

Hi,
I am sorry Eaton, the gun is not even close to the F&I war and was likely made of parts salvaged from a late India pattern Brown Bess and a model 1777 or later French musket. The barrel looks to have Birmingham proof marks indicating manufacture after 1813. I believe it likely is an American militia musket cobbled together during the first quarter of the 19th century.

dave

Thank you Dave … i could verify the ancestors presence at the 1759 battle but was unsure of the musket . I thought it was probably India but wasn’t sure , what about it indicates it has French components ?

The r

Eaton54 said:

Thank you Dave … i could verify the ancestors presence at the 1759 battle but was unsure of the musket . I thought it was probably India but wasn’t sure , what about it indicates it has French components ?

Click to expand...

The trigger guard and side plate

So two questions , why would the French trigger guard and side plate be added to a late India pattern ? As an upgrade or to replace damage ? Lastly , I just inherited this relic . As the pictures show it is in poor condition. What if anything can be done to clean it up and restore it , or should it just be left as is ?

Nonetheless, it's rather unique as an example of an early musket that was put together by someone using all sorts of available parts from diverse sources. I guess there was somewhat of a wide variety to be found then, and nothing went to waste. It's a bit more intriguing to me as such.

So two questions , why would the French trigger guard and side plate be added to a late India pattern ? As an upgrade or to replace damage ? Lastly , I just inherited this relic . As the pictures show it is in poor condition. What if anything can be done to clean it up and restore it , or should it just be left as is ?

The parts were likely added to replace damage or wear.

The musket should be conserved to prevent the present condition from further deterioration and left as it is.

Eaton54 said:

So two questions , why would the French trigger guard and side plate be added to a late India pattern ? As an upgrade or to replace damage ?

Click to expand...

Most likely to repair damage or missing part(s). A large amount of these were dumped by the British as they exited out of the flintlock era and into the caplock type ignition. Folks trading with "natives" sold them, and a large number were also sold to the Mexican government. There were also third models aka "India Pattern" that were captured at the Battle of New Orleans.

Eaton54 said:

What if anything can be done to clean it up and restore it , or should it just be left as is ?

Click to expand...

You will want somebody to take a hard look at it in person. The quality of how well the replacement parts were fit, may mean that this was done at an armory, or by a rather skilled gunsmith, and it might have been part of a state's arsenal at one point. It might have seen action in the Texas War of Independence, or the Mexican American war. Leave it as is, and just have it stabilized, so corrosion would damage it further.

LD

Is there any particular cleanser or oil I could use , or should I just leave it alone ….

Loyalist Dave said:

It might have seen action in the Texas War of Independence, or the Mexican American war.

Click to expand...

@Eaton54 - how long has your family been in Texas?

The idea that parts were added To an India pattern isn't quite right Eaton.
This wasn't an India pattern. It was as Dave says made up With India pattern And French parts.
Best,
Richard.

Just oil it and leave it alone. It is a valuable piece of history. It was probably stocked up with parts on hand in the early 1800's. It's odd that it includes East India co. parts, but anything is possible.

From the photos, I do not see any EIC marks, C-N.
India Pattern yes, but not VEIC as such.
Photos out of focus so may have missed somethig though!

This gun is from New Hampshire . The previous posts suggest it was assembled after 1813 , and possibly used by local militia .

Pukka Bundook said:

The idea that parts were added To an India pattern isn't quite right Eaton.
This wasn't an India pattern. It was as Dave says made up With India pattern And French parts.
Best,
Richard.

Click to expand...

I’m a little confused . if it’s isn’t India pattern , what did it start out as before India pattern and French parts were added ?

Hi,
Let me clarify as PK wrote, I believe it is a possible American militia musket made with a new stock and mounted with old British and French military parts. British ordnance adopted the EIC pattern musket as a cost saving measure during the last decade of the 18th century. However, there do not seem to be any ordnance proof marks on the barrel nor any on the lock although there is the Tower stamp and the crown over GR. But there is no apparent small crown and arrow mark under the pan indicating government ownership. So the source of the British parts is a puzzle. Maybe they are from a privately purchased or commercial musket bought by the various British or Canadian volunteer militias. It might also be possible they are from Birmingham muskets that were purchased by the US for our Marine Corps at the end of the 18th century. French musket parts or similar surplus American musket parts would have been available and perhaps some American militiaman had a local gunsmith make a musket from older parts so he could meet his militia obligations. Many states had mandatory militia enrollment for men between certain ages and they usually had to supply their own muskets unless they could not afford to. Then the state might issue them government owned arms . That system was wide spread and in full force during the War of 1812 and quite a few years after.

dave

It started out as a plank of wood and was stocked up with what ever parts were on hand. This was done by some New England gunsmith.

Thanks to everyone who has weighed in on my questions …so if this gun is a composite of many different parts , and doesn’t fit the traditional classes of identification …can it still be called a brown Bess ?

Nope.

It Is a musket, and could have an interesting history, Eaton, but Brown Bess was the name given to specific muskets.