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A Question for the Black Powder Maniac

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I notice on some of your videos that you don't use a short starter. Do you have a coned muzzle or do you use a loose ball and patch combination, or both?
I plink with .480 round balls in the 50 caliber guns I use. I have about 1200 of the .490's, but seldom use them because they are tougher to load. For the 62 caliber, I use a .600 round ball. I rarely get involved with match play, so those super duper extremely tight loads that others use isn't necessary for me to have a good time shooting.

Yes...I use a thinner patch also. For all day plinking such as I do when at the Pioneer Flats Shootout in Pennsylvania, I use a very thin muslin material. I don't want to load the gun for others to shoot 75-100 times with an extremely tight patch/ball combo. Too much work for shooting steel at 20 yards. The other patches I use is the red/white pillow ticking. I believe it is .014" thick.

I don't like using short starters. Its another item I would have to carry around in the woods.
I prefer using the ramrods attached to the particular gun I'm using.
If I was shooting at a range... I would probably use the short starters and a long metal range rod to load the guns because I wouldn't have to carry them around.
Regarding coning a barrel, I do have one that is coned. The old Pedersoli KY flintlock rifle has had the barrel coned. It is a breeze loading the 1st inch on that rascal.

You can see the coned barrel at the 1:30 timestamp below:
Thanks for asking.

 
I plink with .480 round balls in the 50 caliber guns I use. I have about 1200 of the .490's, but seldom use them because they are tougher to load. For the 62 caliber, I use a .600 round ball. I rarely get involved with match play, so those super duper extremely tight loads that others use isn't necessary for me to have a good time shooting.

Yes...I use a thinner patch also. For all day plinking such as I do when at the Pioneer Flats Shootout in Pennsylvania, I use a very thin muslin material. I don't want to load the gun for others to shoot 75-100 times with an extremely tight patch/ball combo. Too much work for shooting steel at 20 yards. The other patches I use is the red/white pillow ticking. I believe it is .014" thick.

I don't like using short starters. Its another item I would have to carry around in the woods.
I prefer using the ramrods attached to the particular gun I'm using.
If I was shooting at a range... I would probably use the short starters and a long metal range rod to load the guns because I wouldn't have to carry them around.
Regarding coning a barrel, I do have one that is coned. The old Pedersoli KY flintlock rifle has had the barrel coned. It is a breeze loading the 1st inch on that rascal.

You can see the coned barrel at the 1:30 timestamp below:
Thanks for asking.


Your dryball video saved the bacon of someone I know personally. Thanks ! He really appreciates it. Btw, I was wondering how you loaded so effortlessly w just a rod. All makes sense now. Nice work. SW
 
@The Crisco Kid, while you’re waiting to hear back from BPM I recently read in my The Gunsmith of Grenville County that the use of short starters began around the 1930’s. That was news to me.
It was news to everyone. It was standard in the military back Spain back to 1811. Loading blocks at least to the 1840s, be almost impossible to use a loading block without a starter.
In the 1780s matched pistol sets came with them and they were called loading mallets. Standard issue to Austrian rifleman during the Napoleonic wars. Museum of the Fur Trade has a nineteenth century one on display. We cant absolutely date it.
 
It was news to everyone. It was standard in the military back Spain back to 1811. Loading blocks at least to the 1840s, be almost impossible to use a loading block without a starter.
In the 1780s matched pistol sets came with them and they were called loading mallets. Standard issue to Austrian rifleman during the Napoleonic wars. Museum of the Fur Trade has a nineteenth century one on display. We cant absolutely date it.
Yep, can’t believe everything you read.
 
I plink with .480 round balls in the 50 caliber guns I use. I have about 1200 of the .490's, but seldom use them because they are tougher to load. For the 62 caliber, I use a .600 round ball. I rarely get involved with match play, so those super duper extremely tight loads that others use isn't necessary for me to have a good time shooting.

Yes...I use a thinner patch also. For all day plinking such as I do when at the Pioneer Flats Shootout in Pennsylvania, I use a very thin muslin material. I don't want to load the gun for others to shoot 75-100 times with an extremely tight patch/ball combo. Too much work for shooting steel at 20 yards. The other patches I use is the red/white pillow ticking. I believe it is .014" thick.

I don't like using short starters. Its another item I would have to carry around in the woods.
I prefer using the ramrods attached to the particular gun I'm using.
If I was shooting at a range... I would probably use the short starters and a long metal range rod to load the guns because I wouldn't have to carry them around.
Regarding coning a barrel, I do have one that is coned. The old Pedersoli KY flintlock rifle has had the barrel coned. It is a breeze loading the 1st inch on that rascal.

You can see the coned barrel at the 1:30 timestamp below:
Thanks for asking.


Good shooting! That was a fun video 😊
 
It was news to everyone. It was standard in the military back Spain back to 1811. Loading blocks at least to the 1840s, be almost impossible to use a loading block without a starter.
In the 1780s matched pistol sets came with them and they were called loading mallets. Standard issue to Austrian rifleman during the Napoleonic wars. Museum of the Fur Trade has a nineteenth century one on display. We cant absolutely date it.
huh? I do not use a short starter, but I do use a loading block almost all the time.
 
huh? I do not use a short starter, but I do use a loading block almost all the time.
I can see where loading blocks would be convenient in certain situations. If you're hunting where you may only take 2-3 shots, I understand using a block.
If you're shooting a woods walk course of maybe 10-12 targets, that's another possible reason.
When I get out to plink and shoot 50-60 or even up to 90 times in an afternoon, use of loading blocks is not anywhere on my radar screen.
For fun......I did try a speed shooting contest on video a few years that was interesting.
Yes..I even had to use a short started in this one:

 
It was news to everyone. It was standard in the military back Spain back to 1811. Loading blocks at least to the 1840s, be almost impossible to use a loading block without a starter.
Here since the 1990's I use a loading block in two of my flinters my .40 and .54. I do not need a short starter for either I use the rifles ramrod chocked up on. Never had a problem in many thousand or shots, I suggest you use a smaller ball or patch.

My apologies but I do not need 1 inch grouping to kill a deer or squirrel.
 
As I've often said, when I got my CVA I knew NO ONE who shot black powder.
I'd heard to use pillow ticking, so being 14, I asked Mom to get me some. She must've thought it cost to much or maybe they were out, cause she bought me a yard of pillow Case material. Much thinner but tightly woven.

Not knowing any better I loaded the 45 with a .440 ball and pillow case. It loaded easy, and I hit EVERYTHING I aimed at.

I'm convinced of two things.

1. We now use much more powder in our rifles than they did in the 18th and 19th century. I base this on the cased Bespoke English rifles I've seen and read about. The recommended load is printed inside the lid.
One 16 bore rifle made for Prince Albert by Rigby had a recommended load of 60grs ffg for a 435grain ball.

2. We load our rifles Much tighter than they did BITD.
Think about it, with enemies everywhere and deadly critters abounding why oh why would you use so tight a load it required a starter. Speed meant living until tomorrow.
They had NO readily produced material other than wood, unless a military arm, and even they used wood ramrod for time.

A Rifle was a VERY expensive item, not everyone could afford it as a hunting arm.

Target arms DID use Starters, and I think some knucklehead in the 1930s saw one and thought, That's what they must've used at New Orleans. So everyone needs one. Now everyone has one.

I've never bought one. I loaded for over 10 years without one. Never slowed me down. A friend gave me one in college, I've used it more with REAL bullets than prb.

I think a side by side comparison will show a loose fit will kill any animal around, but may not win matches.
 
2. We load our rifles Much tighter than they did BITD.
Think about it, with enemies everywhere and deadly critters abounding why oh why would you use so tight a load it required a starter. Speed meant living until tomorrow.
Couldn't agree with you more.
Loading BP guns these days using rubber mallets and 00.20+ patch materials is excessive.
Loading like that is too much work. I'll pass...
 
As I've oven said, when I got my CVA I knew NO ONE who shot black powder.
I'd heard to use pillow ticking, so being 14 I asked Mom to get me some. She must've thought it cost to much or maybe they were out, cause she bought me a yard of pillow Case material. Much thinner but tightly woven.

Not knowing any better I loaded the 45 with a .440 ball and pillow case. It loaded fairly easy, and I hit EVERYTHING I aimed at.

I'm convinced of two things.

1. We now use much more powder in our rifles than they did in the 18th and 19th century. I base this on the cased Bespoke English rifles I've seen and read about. The recommended load is printed inside the lid.
One 16 bore rifle made for Prince Albert by Rigby had a recommended load of 60grs ffg for a 435grain ball.

2. We load our rifles Much tighter than they did BITD.
Think about it, with enemies everywhere and deadly critters abounding why oh why would you use so tight a load it required a starter. Speed meant living until tomorrow.
They had NO readily produced material other than wood, unless a military arm, and even they used wood ramrod for time.

A Rifle was a VERY expensive item, not everyone could afford it as a hunting arm.

Target arms DID use Starters, and I think some knucklehead in the 1930s saw one and thought, That's what the must've used at New Orleans. So everyone needs one. Now everyone has one.

I've never bought one. I loaded for over 10 years without one. Never slowed me down. A friend gave me one in college, I've used it more with REAL bullets than prb.

I think a side by side comparison will show a loose fit will kill any animal around, but may not win matches.
Agree 100%
 
As I've often said, when I got my CVA I knew NO ONE who shot black powder.
I'd heard to use pillow ticking, so being 14, I asked Mom to get me some. She must've thought it cost to much or maybe they were out, cause she bought me a yard of pillow Case material. Much thinner but tightly woven.

Not knowing any better I loaded the 45 with a .440 ball and pillow case. It loaded easy, and I hit EVERYTHING I aimed at.

I'm convinced of two things.

1. We now use much more powder in our rifles than they did in the 18th and 19th century. I base this on the cased Bespoke English rifles I've seen and read about. The recommended load is printed inside the lid.
One 16 bore rifle made for Prince Albert by Rigby had a recommended load of 60grs ffg for a 435grain ball.

2. We load our rifles Much tighter than they did BITD.
Think about it, with enemies everywhere and deadly critters abounding why oh why would you use so tight a load it required a starter. Speed meant living until tomorrow.
They had NO readily produced material other than wood, unless a military arm, and even they used wood ramrod for time.

A Rifle was a VERY expensive item, not everyone could afford it as a hunting arm.

Target arms DID use Starters, and I think some knucklehead in the 1930s saw one and thought, That's what they must've used at New Orleans. So everyone needs one. Now everyone has one.

I've never bought one. I loaded for over 10 years without one. Never slowed me down. A friend gave me one in college, I've used it more with REAL bullets than prb.

I think a side by side comparison will show a loose fit will kill any animal around, but may not win matches.
Thanks for that Ettery. When I started shooting my new Traditions it was extremely tight with .015 patch/.490 ball. When I joined the forum to learn more and find out if this tightness was normal, even though I never complained about accuracy at all, a whole flock of members advised me to use a thicker patch. ???? I think L Dave advised polishing the bore w the finest steel wool and polishing the crown with some 400 emory cloth. Gamechanger for loading ! I watched Black Powder Maniac shooting and thought it would sure be nice to not need a short starter. Then, recently I took my 13 year old grandson out to get him started. I had purchased some lubed, .010 patches and he used those and hit darn near every can and jug we set up at 40 yards. Last, I had him put a group on paper at the same distance and he shot a 3 shot, inch and a half group. He could start the ball with his thumb and go straight to the ramrod if he wanted to. I will probably save the .015's for hunting but not for plinking. I was having a really hard time imagining being in a war w a short starter added to full hands. I still need one for conicals though. They are not for plinking. Thanks again. SW
 
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