You REALLY want to ship to California??

troy2000 · Mar 28, 2023

It still pisses me off when sellers think being rude to pro-gun people in California, and refusing to do business with us, somehow advances a pro-gun agenda. They should be doing everything they can to support and encourage us, instead of dumping on us because we're outnumbered at the polls. I've had more than one seller on gunbroker.com tell me in so many words that they'll sell me guns or equipment AFTER I change California's anti-gun laws. Say what? Would I be on gunbroker.com, if I had helped to write or pass those laws? One fool a couple of years ago refused to sell me a sling for one of my Swedish Mausers, because I'm in California. Yeah, he had the right to do that. But in what alternate dimension did it make sense? Certainly not in this one...

Sam squanch · Mar 28, 2023

You are correct. But the problem is , sellers don’t want to wake up to a prosecution or lawsuits from the state of California for “supplying “ a weapon that may be used in crime. I believe it will get to that point. So, better safe than sorry.

Nor Cal Mikie · Mar 28, 2023

IMHO, the biggest issue is dealing with the B*** S*** paperwork that is required to ship a gun into California. If you don't have an FFL and havn't personally had to do the paperwork, you have no idea.
One slip up and your butt could be in a crack. In my case, good reason to NOT have an FFL any longer. Don't have time to play their B. S. game.
You do your thing and don't have any issues? Good on you.
And when a buyer starts getting "pushy", GOOD BY!! CLICK.
Like I said, it's not THEIR butt or license on the line.

LI_Novice · Apr 15, 2023

New York wasn’t much better when I left. I don’t know if it’s true but my dad mentioned something about it being a crime for a non-resident to handle a firearm there.

BlackRock52 · Apr 22, 2023

smoothshooter said:
I wouldn’t ship anything there either.
ANYTHING

Maybe a couple of my neighbors and a few MI Politicians......

smoothshooter · Apr 22, 2023

troy2000 said:
It still pisses me off when sellers think being rude to pro-gun people in California, and refusing to do business with us, somehow advances a pro-gun agenda. They should be doing everything they can to support and encourage us, instead of dumping on us because we're outnumbered at the polls. I've had more than one seller on gunbroker.com tell me in so many words that they'll sell me guns or equipment AFTER I change California's anti-gun laws. Say what? Would I be on gunbroker.com, if I had helped to write or pass those laws? One fool a couple of years ago refused to sell me a sling for one of my Swedish Mausers, because I'm in California. Yeah, he had the right to do that. But in what alternate dimension did it make sense? Certainly not in this one...

I’m with the dealers that won’t ship to CA.
The gain is not worth the risk.
Few sellers want to risk doing battle and accruing legal fees that would bankrupt them fighting the unlimited resources of the State.

smoothshooter · Apr 22, 2023

skyhigh315 said:
Hi

Ok, I understand now. I guess I'm an outlier on low recruitment/retention theories. I have friends who are still on the job and they complain about all the scrutiny and recriminations. I don't see it that way for the most part. Frankly, if I were king-for-a-day, I'd make it law that your body-cam turns on automatically upon leaving the vehicle and uploads via live link to a server that is accessible by an independent civilian review board--and any sworn officer/deputy that deliberately turns his cam off is instantly dismissed. That would protect everybody, and any officer who can't do his job without intense public scrutiny should consider beauty college. Nowadays, I'm a vociferous supporter of good, honest LEO's, but a MAJOR pain in the ass for the lousy ones. Ex-LEO (know the game) with a law degree (know the law)? They gotta keep it correct with me.

And how many good men are going to try to get a job filled with stress-filled confrontations that can go bad in a split second where the officer has to react perfectly in another split-second, on video, and get it right every time?
Think you could survive financially and legally for 20+ years in a work environment like that?

Some say crime was much lower in times past when officers were allowed to administer an occasional theraputic skull cracking for slow-learners who had difficulty grasping the importance of being a good, honest, productive citizens, and see the error of their ways.

smoothshooter · Apr 22, 2023

Drain_Bamage said:
I wish people could understand that we aren't a monoculture out here.

(Census block group results 2020, Wikipedia)

The time invested in researching what is legal in CA, where and when ( and the laws are subject to change on a moment’s notice ) is just not worth the $50 to $100 profit on the sale, then lying awake at night worrying if you missed something that might get you greetings from the CA Attorney General by mail.
I have 3 high-quality muzzleloaders I am getting ready to advertise, sell and ship.
NONE of them will be going to CA, MA, NY, or IL.

2 shots · Apr 22, 2023

Boatncamp said:
CA is just like NY. State laws are dictated by the legislators from the big cities and not by the people in general. Most people in the city have a very skewed view of firearms as the associate them with the thugs that run the streets. NY continues to run afoul of the Constitution with its gun laws. While not all of the laws have been affected, the general view of the State is that black powder guns are firearms and it won't be long before transfers here will have to be through an FFL.

i understand that the n.y.s. police were supposed to do the back round checks and are not set up to do it. the feds will not as they dont see them as firearms[ yet] its just our wonderful governor trying too break em.

skyhigh315 · Apr 22, 2023

smoothshooter said:
And how many good men are going to try to get a job filled with stress-filled confrontations that can go bad in a split second where the officer has to react perfectly in another split-second, on video, and get it right every time?
Think you could survive financially and legally for 20+ years in a work environment like that?

Some say crime was much lower in times past when officers were allowed to administer an occasional theraputic skull cracking for slow-learners who had difficulty grasping the importance of being a good, honest, productive citizens, and see the error of their ways.

Well, I suppose some would say crime was lower back then, but those same 'someones' would probably not consider police skull-cracking (or lynching for that matter) a crime anyway. All that 'split-second decision' business is predicated on the idea that officer safety is somehow more important than public safety. That only works if you don't believe strongly enough in equality and the Constitution. Also, if the risks associated with law-enforcement and being under intense scrutiny are too much to handle, then I'd circle back and question that 'good men' notion. There is enormous power that comes with that badge and there's no reason it shouldn't come with tremendous responsibility, too. Like I said, if there's any interaction whatsoever with the public that requires an officer to turn off his body cam, then it's probably in violation of his training, the law or the person's rights. If they can't stand the heat, go to cosmetology school instead.

Some of the best, noblest and bravest people I've ever met were cops. But some of the slimiest, most dishonest, sociopathic, ignorant and crude POS's I've ever met were also cops. You may give blanket quarter and somehow think their right to go home safe at night is more important than that of J. Q. Public, but not if that citizen is your wife or son. So when a cop leaves the job because of intense scrutiny or basic accountability, then THIS former cop says 'Don't let the door hitcha where the Good Lord splitcha."

smoothshooter · Apr 22, 2023

skyhigh315 said:
Well, I suppose some would say crime was lower back then, but those same 'someones' would probably not consider police skull-cracking (or lynching for that matter) a crime anyway. All that 'split-second decision' business is predicated on the idea that officer safety is somehow more important than public safety. That only works if you don't believe strongly enough in equality and the Constitution. Also, if the risks associated with law-enforcement and being under intense scrutiny are too much to handle, then I'd circle back and question that 'good men' notion. There is enormous power that comes with that badge and there's no reason it shouldn't come with tremendous responsibility, too. Like I said, if there's any interaction whatsoever with the public that requires an officer to turn off his body cam, then it's probably in violation of his training, the law or the person's rights. If they can't stand the heat, go to cosmetology school instead.

Some of the best, noblest and bravest people I've ever met were cops. But some of the slimiest, most dishonest, sociopathic, ignorant and crude POS's I've ever met were also cops. You may give blanket quarter and somehow think their right to go home safe at night is more important than that of J. Q. Public, but not if that citizen is your wife or son. So when a cop leaves the job because of intense scrutiny or basic accountability, then THIS former cop says 'Don't let the door hitcha where the Good Lord splitcha."

Why are you “ former “, may I ask?
I am “ former “, for a couple of years also, years ago.
Decided I did not like it, got out, back before it got so bad.
I’m glad there are are those that still do it. I would never do it again nowadays.
I would never encourage anyone I care about to become a cop in today’s legal and political environment.
I respect those who do, and am saddened by what they have to deal with on all fronts.

SOLANCO · Apr 22, 2023

Since I don't sell anything after retirement shipping there is moot. But there are states where I avoid buying anything they produce. California is atop that list, and not just because of the alphabet.

vintovka · Apr 23, 2023

We were "forced" out of CA 10 years ago and never looked back. Once had a job there to map every subdivision in the state from the Spanish land grants to modern day. Every so often we would find a place that was not part of any subdivision by either mistake or oversite. These were called "NAPOTS" (Not A Part Of This Subdivision). California is rapidly becoming a NPOTUS (Not Part Of The US).

skyhigh315 · Apr 23, 2023

smoothshooter said:
Why are you “ former “, may I ask?
I am “ former “, for a couple of years also, years ago.
Decided I did not like it, got out, back before it got so bad.
I’m glad there are are those that still do it. I would never do it again nowadays.
I would never encourage anyone I care about to become a cop in today’s legal and political environment.
I respect those who do, and am saddened by what they have to deal with on all fronts.

I don't mind the question. In my case, it was a few things. I guess you could say I grew up always wanting to be a cop, but once I got there, I was pretty different than what I thought. I had a pretty romanticized, idealized notion about rule of law and the Constitution and all that... but saw way too many instances of people abusing the trust the public puts in them. Got DWB'd enough times to realize that the system that protects that kind of thing is rotten to start with. So I realized it really wasn't for me. I never liked seeing humans at their very worst or becoming paranoid or adopting this attitude of 'us against them.' So now, I serve the Constitution by making the government (and yes, the cops are the government) cross all the t's and dot all the i's. I challenge all their evidence and make sure they understand that if their case isn't strong enough to withstand my scrutiny and challenge, then they don't deserve a conviction. As for the political environment, you and I probably don't see eye-to-eye on that. It's only bad for cops if you believe they should be able to do whatever to whomever, and it happened however they said it did. I know better, and I believe sunlight is the best disinfectant and good cops have nothing to fear from intense scrutiny.

skyhigh315 · Apr 23, 2023

vintovka said:
We were "forced" out of CA 10 years ago and never looked back. Once had a job there to map every subdivision in the state from the Spanish land grants to modern day. Every so often we would find a place that was not part of any subdivision by either mistake or oversite. These were called "NAPOTS" (Not A Part Of This Subdivision). California is rapidly becoming a NPOTUS (Not Part Of The US).

Well, I'm a happy and proud Californian and a proud and patriotic American, too. As such, I'm curious which backwards, poor education, high crime, poor health outlook, bad Mexican food, cousin-marrying, irrelevant state you moved to?

Sam squanch · Apr 23, 2023

Ohhh… get ready for a lot of hate….

stikshooter · Apr 23, 2023

Boatncamp said:
CA is just like NY. State laws are dictated by the legislators from the big cities and not by the people in general. Most people in the city have a very skewed view of firearms as the associate them with the thugs that run the streets. NY continues to run afoul of the Constitution with its gun laws. While not all of the laws have been affected, the general view of the State is that black powder guns are firearms and it won't be long before transfers here will have to be through an FFL.

If your talking BP pistols they are here (NOW)/Ed

Nor Cal Mikie · Apr 23, 2023

smoothshooter said:
The time invested in researching what is legal in CA, where and when ( and the laws are subject to change on a moment’s notice ) is just not worth the $50 to $100 profit on the sale, then lying awake at night worrying if you missed something that might get you greetings from the CA Attorney General by mail.
I have 3 high-quality muzzleloaders I am getting ready to advertise, sell and ship.
NONE of them will be going to CA, MA, NY, or IL.

Might miss the chance on "both ends". Muzzleloaders are NOT classed as firearms in California. If you should run into a dealer that thinks different, that's THEIR problem and yours if you pass up the chance to make a sale.

Sam squanch · Apr 23, 2023

People are concerned that if they ship even a muzzleloading firearm to a individual in California, and said muzzleloading firearm is later used in a crime, the state may try to come after them, with help from the atf. No thanks.

Nor Cal Mikie · Apr 23, 2023

Sam squanch said:
People are concerned that if they ship even a muzzleloading firearm to a individual in California, and said muzzleloading firearm is later used in a crime, the state may try to come after them, with help from the atf. No thanks.

I understand what you're saying BUT, ever see an idiot use a muzzleloader to hold up a convince store? I take that question back. TOO MANY IDIOTS out there so someone WILL try.

You REALLY want to ship to California??

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