Why would a ML rifle have a high POI?

So here's the situation.

Purchased a new Crockett Squirrel rifle a few months ago. Right off the bat the POI was very high out to at least 35 yards. I tried a few different things to no avail. Finally I started in on filing down the rear sight. It took a lot, and I mean a lot, to get the POI down to where the rifle was ready to hunt. By doing so it resulted in the rear sight being too darn short. Even others with good vision has stated that its difficult to shoot as is. I made through the late squirrel season as is but something had/has to change. So I dug out a fixed sight for another brand and style of ML I had lying around and filed down the dove tail so it would fit in my Crockett rifle. I was hoping that, considering it is somewhat similar to the stock rear fixed sight, that just maybe it was workable. But that was not to be. Dang thing went right back to a high POI. I have a Tom A Hawks Peep sight on the way. If it will indeed fit, then my problem should be resolved. However, due to the hammer location, I have my doubts that it will work. Hopefully it will fit and work out. If not, then it appears that my only other option is to try to find, or fab, a higher front sight that I can try to make fit.

With that said, my question is, why would a ML have such a high POI to begin with? Other than perhaps the stock not cut out properly, what would cause this conundrum?

High is better than low in my opinion. Just get a taller front sight and your done.

Why didn't you just get a higher front sight? Simple! No need to file anything. But now that you have made the front sight difficult to use, you'll have to get one of those too.

woodsnwater said:

High is better than low in my opinion. Just get a taller front sight and your done.

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Indeed. As I have posted, its on my list if something more viable doesn't work out, such as the Tom A Hawks peep, which if it works out would be much better than any fixed sight. If it comes down to the peep not fitting, finding a proper size front sight may be an issue.

Old Hawkeye said:

Why didn't you just get a higher front sight? Simple! No need to file anything. But now that you have made the front sight difficult to use, you'll have to get one of those too.

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Geese, I already stated I put another rear sight on the rifle that has not been filed.

BTW, not only does the manual state to file down the rear sight to adjust for a high POI, I had no idea how much to file down the stock rear sight until I got into it.

You could just change your sight alignment. There's no law saying you have to have the front post even with the top of the notch. In fact, this very technique was taught back in the day.

I would rather have high. All my rifles I have had to buy a higher front sight, to then file down to POI.

Buy a taller front sight

ETipp said:

I had no idea how much to file down the stock rear sight until I got into it.

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There's a formula. It's especially useful when ordering a new front sight, but you could also use it to do what you did, adjust the rear sight. It works for drifting a sight for windage, too.

inches you want to move POI x sight radius / inches to target

So, let's say you are 12" high at 30yds and the measurement from the rear sight to the front sight is 27"

12x27/1080=0.30"

You would have to add .3" to the front sight to bring it down 12"
Or lower the rear sight by .3".

That said, maybe the rifle sights are regulated for 100yds. Or maybe you need to adjust the powder charge. Or like already mentioned, maybe you should bury the front blade in the rear sight's notch. Although it's nice to use the same sight picture, so that would be a last resort for me. I only do that for guns with a brass bead front sight and not a blade.

Old Hawkeye said:

Why didn't you just get a higher front sight? Simple! No need to file anything. But now that you have made the front sight difficult to use, you'll have to get one of those too.

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Geese, I already stated I put another rear sight on the rifle that has not been filed.
ETipp, You are seemingly not in tune with the replies here. No disrespect intended. We are saying to quit playing with your rear sight and raise the front. Before one ever starts messing with the sights you should calculate, ask or know about how much you are going to need to take off, or add. Once that is determined, a shooter can then decide if that will make the sights too high or too low to their preference. In your case you ended up with the rear sight being too low. We want to help, not put down anything you did. In my opinion peeps are worthless for hunting. Lighting and focus are more of an issue at least in my way of thinking. Good luck
Larry

Stop crunching numbers to see how much material has to come off the front sight.

Start with a tall front sight and file it down at the range.

That's why God made files portable.

Larry (Omaha) said:

Geese, I already stated I put another rear sight on the rifle that has not been filed.
ETipp, You are seemingly not in tune with the replies here. No disrespect intended. We are saying to quit playing with your rear sight and raise the front. Before one ever starts messing with the sights you should calculate, ask or know about how much you are going to need to take off, or add. Once that is determined, a shooter can then decide if that will make the sights too high or too low to their preference. In your case you ended up with the rear sight being too low. We want to help, not put down anything you did. In my opinion peeps are worthless for hunting. Lighting and focus are more of an issue at least in my way of thinking. Good luck
Larry

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Thanks for the input but what was done is already done. As I have already stated the situation in my first post on this (that some people obviously did not read properly before commenting). Now, if you go back and read the post again I clearly stated that I have already installed another rear sight AND if the peep doesn't pan out then I will be purchasing a taller front sight if I can find one. I had known this from the beginning but decided to do what was called for in the owners manual from the manufacturer first. No where did I state I was going to be filing down the new fixed sight I installed, only the dove tail to make it fit.

I simply explained the situation and asked "Why" would a ML have such a high POI to begin with?

And for the record, peeps are the best possible solution for someone with less than ideal vision that is already having issues with fixed sights. Its either that, go to a scope (which I am unwilling to do on a trad ML) or sell out all together.

pacanis said:

There's a formula. It's especially useful when ordering a new front sight, but you could also use it to do what you did, adjust the rear sight. It works for drifting a sight for windage, too.

inches you want to move POI x sight radius / inches to target

So, let's say you are 12" high at 30yds and the measurement from the rear sight to the front sight is 27"

12x27/1080=0.30"

You would have to add .3" to the front sight to bring it down 12"
Or lower the rear sight by .3".

That said, maybe the rifle sights are regulated for 100yds. Or maybe you need to adjust the powder charge. Or like already mentioned, maybe you should bury the front blade in the rear sight's notch. Although it's nice to use the same sight picture, so that would be a last resort for me. I only do that for guns with a brass bead front sight and not a blade.

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Thank you for the information.

Ed its not you, the Crocket rifle comes with a too short front sight. Its a short coming of Traditions

ETipp said:

Thanks for the input but what was done is already done. As I have already stated the situation in my first post on this (that some people obviously did not read properly before commenting). Now, if you go back and read the post again I clearly stated that I have already installed another rear sight AND if the peep doesn't pan out then I will be purchasing a taller front sight if I can find one. I had known this from the beginning but decided to do what was called for in the owners manual from the manufacturer first. No where did I state I was going to be filing down the new fixed sight I installed, only the dove tail to make it fit.

I simply explained the situation and asked "Why" would a ML have such a high POI to begin with?

And for the record, peeps are the best possible solution for for someone with less than ideal vision that is already having issues with fixed sights. Its either that, go to a scope (which I am unwilling to do on a trad ML) or sell out all together.

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POI can be too high for a least some of these reasons: too much powder, barrel bore out of center with the outside of the barrel, wrong sight alignment.
Larry

ETipp said:

Geese, I already stated I put another rear sight on the rifle that has not been filed.

BTW, not only does the manual state to file down the rear sight to adjust for a high POI, I had no idea how much to file down the stock rear sight until I

Click to expand...

Why are you messing with the rear sight?

http://www.anycalculator.com/gunsitecalculator.html
Like stated above, "buy a taller front sight"

Up is down, down is up, left is right and right is left unless you are at the back then down is down and up is up, right is right and left is left.......

Another constant: never ever read any further than the first sentence of the OP and NEVER read any subsequent posts before you comment.

"With that said, my question is, why would a ML have such a high POI to begin with? Other than perhaps the stock not cut out properly, what would cause this conundrum?"

If the bore is on center at the muzzle, the bore at the breech plug is off center and low. [possibly]

Causing the ball to rise more [shoot up hill] than if the bore was straight. [centered]

Maybe just consider yourself "lucky" that who ever cut the sight dovetails didn't cut them on one of the other flats and make it shoot extremely high or low left or right. Better that it was cut so that it is high rather than extremely left or right.