Anyone fretting/thinking about building their own muzzleloader?

oldwood said:

Might be good to build a kit , before a scratch build from a blank. Kit will get your head going in the right direction.

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Good advice, but I jumped right in and did a scratch build from the git go. I even made the patch box and some other parts. No brag, just what I did. (young and full of zip) The key for me was to own a flintlock longrifle first, that I used for a pattern and guide. A long time mentor and good friend told me long ago: " just remove the wood you don't want".
Larry

B P Maniac Shooter said:

I would forget the gun builders and purchase a Kibler Kit.
Prices are reasonable and you don't have to wait months/years to get it.
You can assemble a Kibler gun within a week and have an excellent gun to shoot.
You can't go wrong with a kit that simple to complete.

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Mark, I totally agree if a feller just wants a gun, and can say he put it together. But, if you enjoy a project working on muzzleloaders, then I say go a little deeper, and do a scratch build that will give you a longer ride. Keep up the fun vids!
Larry

tenngun said:

Bill, I bought an Indian flute once. Worked hard and could play a few tunes.
Had a friend, who had musical talent. After about six months I showed off to him what I could do.
He had never seen an Indian flute, but thought it pretty nice. And wanted to give it a go.
Made two or three toots, listened to a couple of tunes and then set to playing. Sounded just like Carlos Nakai
I gave him the flute
Having been messing up gun builds for over forty years, and having learned a lot from your vids I have to chuckle at your statement. I feel like I’m stuggeling to get a toot while your Nakai

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tenngun,
What a hillarious reply. I wanted to say someting to Bill too. I am now on my tenth build and still struggle with some items. I get them done, but never to my satisfaction.
Wanna purchase another flute??
Larry

There is some basic knowledge of woodworking and generally just working with your hands that a lot of people take for granted, or forgot they had to learn it. If someone has never touched a saw or chisel before, it can be very intimidating and easily discouraging if they split the wood by accident or something similar. I am working on my own first build and it’s fun, but the average person here (due to age or blue color jobs) has more experience with their hands than most. If people have the time and resources they should try it, though.

Larry (Omaha) said:

tenngun,
What a hillarious reply. I wanted to say someting to Bill too. I am now on my tenth build and still struggle with some items. I get them done, but never to my satisfaction.
Wanna purchase another flute??
Larry

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Was thinking the same thing, @tenngun summed the disparity in skill levels up nicely. What’s easy to some, isn’t necessarily easy to others. I’ll never compete with Bill and the other fine builders here.

Larry (Omaha) said:

Mark, I totally agree if a feller just wants a gun, and can say he put it together. But, if you enjoy a project working on muzzleloaders, then I say go a little deeper, and do a scratch build that will give you a longer ride. Keep up the fun vids!
Larry

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That works too....I guess it depends on what he wants to build.
Gun building would be OK during the winter months when there isn't much to do and its dark at 5pm.

Selection of what to build is also a factor, buy a Chambers or Pecatonica 'kit' with a hooked breech and wedge keys for your first build and it will be dramatically more difficult than something simpler. If I could change things in the past I would probably buy a Kibler kit and put that together, then start on a Pecatonica or Chambers having a reference to use in the Kibler, then go with a plank build having gathered some of the tools and knowledge to do so. Knowing and being able to see what it is supposed to be makes getting it to what it is supposed to be a LOT easier.

Eric Krewson said:

I don't believe anyone can build a kit, much less complete a scratch build. What makes sense to some of us who have done crafty stuff is like reading a space alien language to someone who has never done as much as build a bird house growing up, they are out there and plenty of them.

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Now hold on there, Eric. I think you're being a little too quick to pass sentence here. Having been a teacher for over twenty years, and a student for more than fifty, methinks it's more a question of the quality of the teacher. And also, I'll admit, the dedication of the student, for dedication, passion, and drive trump talent every time. I've seen it in my students.

But if a teacher goes in there with the attitude that the student is going to turn out substandard work, or worse just plain fail. you know what happens? The student meets the teacher's expectations every time.

Flint Striker said:

I’ve been out of muzzleloaders for awhile, but looking to get back in. Along with the Kibler woodsrunner, I’ve been looking at a couple Chambers kits and watching to see what happens by on the classifieds. Even if I discover I’m not quite smart enough to build the kit myself, I can always get a gunsmith or builder to help me out.

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The main thing is to take your time. Don't get feelin 'I gotta get that finished'. People screw things up when they get rushed and don't take the time needed to think things through. I have bailed a few folks out by finishing 'kit' guns that they started and messed up; the job isn't easier if you have to patch really bad inletting and mis-drilled holes. Don't be afraid of the job-it's hugely satisfying taking your own product out to the range, and in years yet to come, seeing your products in other folks hands still bringing joy.

JoeG said:

The first time I put a bead of weld down it did not look as nice as I can weld today either. Fact is, you don't know what you don't know until you learn it. The quality of something like a rifle build would obviously improve after building several rifles. I have my first real kit purchased and await its arrival. I am building a "Johnny Cash Cadillac" rifle too, learning as I go. The wood carving is likely beyond my level of skill and time commitment for now, but learning the mechanics and applying my machining skills to the metal bits will net me 2 rifles when I'm done, if i can find my way through the required wood working.

I'm having fun and learning, either way
And I've dropped more cash in a week on vacation than I will have spent when done too.

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That’s a valid point.

I would love to build up my own . I know exactly what I want to do...it would be a recreation of a 1840s mfg .45 1/2 stock that was in the family. What holds me back from trying is the lack of heated dedicated shop space. As a happy compromise, I built a Kibler Longrifle last year, and will shortly be ordering up a SMR. Much less time involved.

Johnny Tremain said:

If I can do it, anyone can. It took me 5 months.

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Time is the key. And we can get impatient. I’ve built guns since I was eighteen or nineteen, not a bunch but a few. Just once I kept track of every job I did. It was a track of tge wolf kit and it took me a hundred hours till first coat of oil went on the stock. This is a gun on the ‘east’ side.
Life goes on while we’re building
A more complex build might double that time
Be prepared that the gun that just came in the box might not be making smoke for a few months after you start.

JoeG said:

Reminds me of the guys who say they can't butcher their own deer. I ask them if it is hard to eat steak, ya know, since they can't cut up meat...they usually look at me strange before the light bulb comes on. The only difference is you start with a portion if it, disect it, chew it well, then move to another piece.

The way I see it, the "not able to" isn't a can't situation, it's "not willing to put forth the effort to learn" in most cases. We are not talking about learning to fly a jet where a mistake puts you upside down on the turf under a flaming mass of titanium and jet fuel. People can critique the way you cut your grass, doesn't mean it is wrong, it is your grass. If it was a contest it wouldn't be much fun, I didn't start down this path to be measured by others though.

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I used to be a Department Supervisor of one of the national home improvement stores. One day as I was walking to the front of the store an early 20 something lady asked me to find this odd ball light bulb she had. I found in fairly quick and handed it to her. Her response really floored me, "Can you send someone out to install this for me". I mean really you screwed the bulb out Just turn it the other way and it will go in.

tenngun said:

I’m real good at turning a thousand dollars worth of parts in to a five hundred dollar gun
My inletting always leaves much to be desired. But.,,, I have so much fun doing them
And guess what. Most old time masters made glaring mistakes, and God knows there were lots of ugly guns, take a look at Seth Kinmans gun, you will do better then that

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I resemble these remarks.....

Just to add, I am not taking anything away from the gents who are talented and knowledgeable beyond belief and have dedicated years to the craft.

Maybe that woman needed help with more than a lightbulb.

Way back when, the CVA kits looked like a piece of cake and like many, I put together one of their derringers. I saw the rifles and felt those were just as easy. After sending money to a Florida man to build me a left handed Hawken and he never delivered, I was back a square one and ordered one of the then new Sharon Hawken kits. It took far more work than I ever imagined. I was determined to do a good job and like others, spent more on tools than what I could have purchased the finished rifle from Sharon. After all these years I am still pretty pleased with the work I did but it certainly taught me my limitations!

I think those who want to build a gun should try. I fear more people never start a project because they believe they can't do it than those who truly lack the ability. I am not particularly skilled but if you never try you will never succeed. you will make mistakes along the way and that is ok. that is what learning is. information and help abound thanks to the internet. one hard part is that I can always see my mistakes after I have finished my guns. that's ok I tell myself I will do better on the next one.

Larry (Omaha) said:

Hey guys, I am no expert by a long shot, but remember when I had the first hankering to build a rifle. I thought, "this is beyond my capabilities", but pursued it anyway. One day I was at a shoot and spoke to a fellow shooter who had a beautiful long rifle. After a nice discussion about his build I wondered what his background was. I asked "what do you do for a living?" He said, "I shoot cars". (painted cars for a living) Wow, I thought, if he can do it so can I! Anyway to all you guys and gals too, that would like to make a rifle, don't think about it, go for it. It will not be the best looking one at the range, but it will be one YOU made.
I saw this video and want to share. This guy says this is his first build muzzleloader.. His work is not refined as a seasoned riflesmith, but, remember he is not a seasoned riflesmith. He could/should give inspiration to anyone thinking about building his/her own.
Larry

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Hi Larry, I appreciate you sharing my video! This is an excellent topic... Whether you purchase a high end rifle, or decide to build a kit yourself, you still have the ability to customize it. I agree with BPMS… the Kibler kits are hard to beat for the money, and the fact that you can still make it your own. What they do lack, is the ability to customize castoff, drop, and LOP etc..

“Necessity is the mother of all invention.” This rang true for me in wanting to pursue this build. It came about as almost a duty once pieces started falling into place (literally). I myself wrestled with how I even wanted to start the build. Did I want a precarved stock with inlets for the lock and barrel? Or did I want to embrace the challenge at hand and go with a blank? For myself, I chose a blank because I knew I wouldn’t be happy with the result otherwise. Purchasing a precarved stock was me rushing to the finish line. I only used hand tools for the entire build. No drill presses, bandsaws, or other machinery. I did use a compact drill for my pins, tang bolt etc. as I felt like I needed the precision to drill through steel.

All of this comes back to personal choice and what you’re willing to live with. Anyone can get a kit and put a kit together, but not everyone can build a longrifle by hand. They each have their place. I wrestled with plenty of doubts before, during, and after I can assure you lol.

Where I know there’s plenty of room for me to refine these skills as you said (and I agree) I can say I did it start to finish by hand. I’ve seen quite a few builders using duplicators, or starting with precarved stocks which can certainly give you a more precision made gun. There seems to be a trend where folks want a hand made gun to look like a CNC machine did it, which is a whole other topic in and of itself. I’m glad I documented some aspects of the build to hopefully show others that it doesn’t take this massive shop, expensive equipment, or tons of tools to build a rifle you’re happy with, like you said. Thanks again for sharing!

HSmithTX said:

Selection of what to build is also a factor, buy a Chambers or Pecatonica 'kit' with a hooked breech and wedge keys for your first build and it will be dramatically more difficult than something simpler. If I could change things in the past I would probably buy a Kibler kit and put that together, then start on a Pecatonica or Chambers having a reference to use in the Kibler, then go with a plank build having gathered some of the tools and knowledge to do so. Knowing and being able to see what it is supposed to be makes getting it to what it is supposed to be a LOT easier.

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Hi, boy you got that right about building a gun with keys and a standing breech. I'm in the middle of such a build, a Chambers English fowler and am doing just that, a standing breech, found after getting the breech inletted that I needed more wood in the breech area and had to sand a flat and glue more wood! So, aside from just the normal amount of work I'm having to do additional inletting and deal with gluing. I'll have to get some pic's up.