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Build a Try-Stock
- Thread starter Sheppsan
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Cruzatte
50 Cal.
No, not in the immediate future. Although I certainly have thought it would be a good idea.
What I the heck is a "try-stock"
Yep, it works perfectly. Adjust it until you can close your eyes, shoulder the stock, open your eyes and have the sights be in perfect alignment, transfer these measurements to your stock blank. All my life I had only shot guns with generic stock measurements, making a flintlock stock that actually fit me was a real eye opener.
Eric, thanks for the photos; I really appreciate it. Will have to make one up and give it a try.
If you order a best gun from one of the British makers you will have to go in for a fitting. Not unlike having a tailor measure you for a custom suit. You can buy a used British best gun, but unless your measurements closely resemble those of the original owner it may disappoint.
Can you adjust for cast-off?
I discovered this option with my Lehigh flinter, and I love it!
Not that I'm a builder, but your photo piqued my interest.
Your abilities are amazing, and I read all of your posts that I see.
You give lots of great advice.
OK, sorry, I got carried away...
I tried one years ago and built a rifle off the dimensions. That rifle still fits me and gives me the dimensions I use for those I build today. I wonder if one of those modern shotguns that has a stock that can be adjusted in about every direction would serve as a try stock?
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No cast off on my simple try stock but it could be added with a little effort, I have cast off on all of the guns I have built except for one of the pre-carves. I have found pull and drop are the most important measurements, cast off is just the icing on the cake.
A modern adjustable shotgun stock should work as a try stock.
A modern adjustable shotgun stock should work as a try stock.
Now this is some useful information.
Hmmm, never seen a need for something like that. Another thing to be thankful for for being an average Joe
That's what I thought until I shouldered a rifle, and especially a shotgun, that really fit. Unless a stock fit is really off we can adapt ourselves to it and it feels ok, until one comes along that almost seems to aim and fire itself hitting right where it should.
Fortunately I've never had an issue
Like pointing your finger. I have over 20 Spanish fine SxS and everyone is fitted to me. I can switch between one to the other and no change or adjustment required.
I had a good friend Master Gunsmith (Sr. Godoy) in Spain fit me and then modify or make stocks that fit. It is a marvel what a properly fitted SxS does.
Rifle fitment, while not quite as important with scoped guns, makes a big difference when you are using iron sights, especially for moving game or quick shots.
I envy you!
Perhaps not so much with a rifle, where there is a relatively wide latitude for physical sighting adjustments, for wing-shooting/moving game, IMO, a well fitted shotgun is priceless. To extract the full benefit, fitment and shooting form go hand in hand. One of my favorite references which explains all aspects…
If cast on or off is desired, it can be easily accomplished by adding tapered wooden wedges of different taper thicknesses (something like the shims used to install door frame casings) between the front end and butt stock pieces of Eric Krewson's design above (see his post #4 above). They would only have to be about 3" long, and about the same height as the wrist, with different amounts of taper providing more or less cast to the center line of the butt stock portion. If the thicker part of the tapered wedge was facing to the front, (with the two main pieces situated the front atop the butt as they are in Eric's photos) the cast would be "on" to the right, and if to the rear, the cast would be "off" to the left. The cast would be in the opposite directions if the two main pieces were assembled the other way.
The guns used for fitting a gun are commonly known as a try-gun and they are very expensive. I was the gun-fitter for the Orvis custom fit shotguns at the Orvis San Francisco store for about 7-years before I left late in 1997. A try gun is adjustable for drop at heel, drop at comb, length of pull, cast-off (right hand shooters) or cast-on (left hand shooters). Besides the length of pull measured to the center of the buttplate an adjustment to the LOP at the heel and toe may be necessary. This is often referred to as the pitch angle of the butt stock and that pitch angle defines how the recoil from the gun hits your shoulder. this is an especially important measurement on a large breasted woman who would typically need a shorter length of pull at the toe to be comfortable for her to shoot. It can also be necessary on weight-lifter types with with large pectoral muscles.
The whole idea behind getting a gun fit correctly is to get your eye centered over the barrel of your gun in line with the bead at the muzzle and right on top of the barrel, not above it, when you mount the gun correctly. You should only see the bead and maybe 4" of the end of the barrel when your eye is at the right level. It is critical to mount the gun correctly and consistently to get the proper effect from a custom-fit gun. The head should come forward to meet the stock as you mount the gun but should NEVER be tilted over it to get the sight picture.
The Orvis Company uses and teaches the instinctive shooting method, which is just slightly different than the Churchill method. With a custom-fit gun, you carry the gun in the ready position and then when you see your target, you stare at the target as it moves and mount your gun. If you mount the gun correctly without taking your eyes off the target, and the fit is good, the bead at the muzzle will be on your target when the gun hits you shoulder. When the gun hits your shoulder, you fire.
.Presuming everything's been done correctly and you have a good fit, the clay bird will turn to dust, the upland gamebird or waterfowl will drop out of the sky, or the running big game animal will tumble. If the gun doesn't quite fit you, then you will have to swing your gun to get on target. If it's a good fit and you do your part, it will be on target as soon as it's mounted.
The cast off (or cast-on for left-handers) is an extremely important measurement. Cast off is the distance the center of the butt is to the right of the centerline of the barrel and cast-on is the distance to the left. That cast measurement is what puts your eye over the center of the barrel without needing to make any sight adjustments once you mount the gun. Off the shelf guns are normally a straight stock with no cast either on or off. Basically, they don't fit anybody and you have to tilt your head over to get the necessary sight picture.
My first flintlock was (still have it) a Traditions Pennsylvania .50-cal.Longrifle and it has a Roman Nose type stock. It is of course a straight stock inline with the barrel, with no offset. When I first shot it I had to tilt my head over the top of the stock to line up the sights and if I fired the rifle in that position, the recoil would inevitably smash the stock into my cheek and bruise it. I had to either move my head farther back behind the apex of the Roman Nose so the recoil pushed it up away from my cheek, or use an old shotgunner's trick of turning my nose into the stock and sighting out the corner of my eye. That corner of the eye trick allowed me to line up the sights without putting my cheek over the top of the stock. The recoil then pushed the stock past my cheek instead of slamming it into my cheek.
My second flintlock is a beautifully built Early Lancaster rifle with a swamped barrel and an offset. The offset is just a bit too much to be perfect for me. I need 1/4" offset and I think it is 3/8". Most right-handed shooters need either 1/4" or 3/8" offset. The least amount of offset I ever measured was for a woman who only needed 1/8" of offset to get her eye centered over the barrel. She was a slight woman with narrow shoulders and a narrow face. The most offset was a big guy with a wide face and big shoulders who needed a 1/2" offset. It's amazing how that little measurement makes such a difference in getting the correct sight picture quickly.
Anyhow, a Try-Gun is adjustable enough to make all of those adjustments and get the eye in the correct position. Since I was doing fittings in the actual Orvis Store on the corner of Grant and Sutter in San Francisco, we obviously couldn't fire the gun in the store. Firing the gun is normally where you make the final adjustments to get the pattern you need on the target. So instead I used a laser sighting tool that fit inside the barrel and was activated by a button, which I mounted on the side of the lockplate just above the root of the trigger.
The client would stare at the center of the target, mount the Try-Gun, and touch the button to fire the light as soon as it hit their shoulder. It came with a reflective target that made it easy to see where the light hit. When you got it dialed in, as long as they mounted the gun correctly, every shot was a bullseye. At that point I would take the gun and set it on a glass table to start taking my measurements and jot them down on our gun-building form to send to our gun shop in Manchester, VT or to give to the customer if he was having a custom gun built elsewhere. Custom guns would typically take 3-6 months for an over/under and 8-12 months for a side-by-side.
Sorry, for the length. That's probably far more than you expected to get with your question, "What's a Try-stock".
This is great.
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Great explanation!
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