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Non-Firing replica 1766 Charleville Infantry Musket

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ColonialRifleSmith said:
I called Adam. We talked for about 30 minutes. Great guy, however, he's a builder of special-order guns. Not a manufacturer. Semper Fi.
Click to expand...
You could possibly match a brown bess lock to your indian or italian gun from Dixie gun works. And there are guys who could either harden your locks hammer or make you one out of better material. All depends on how much your willing to put into a cheap gun.
 
FlinterNick said:
I’d avoid them, for a few reasons, which i won’t elaborate on too much. Not saying you can’t shoot them or love them, don’t take it personal.

1. Overall Quality; these Indian made muskets have a lot of quality issues, its rare that you’ll get a musket in top quality.
2. Authenticity, if you want a musket just to have a musket I think its fine, however you said you wanted a ‘Charleville’ I can assure you that any Indian made Charleville shares very little in common with an actual Charleville Musket, especially a 1766 pattern.
3. Hopefully you’re a strong fellow, because most Indian made muskets are overweight by 3-5 lbs.
4. Value; Indian made muskets do not appreciate in value, they often will sell for far less then their were purchased, so antipcate trading them away for items of lesser value.
5. Parts; All replacement parts need to be custom made and fit, you will almost never find a viable supplier of replacement parts.
6. Defarbing: making an Indian made gun authentic will cost almost as much as the gun itself, its a money pit dont do it.
7. Poor Locks: The locks are problematic.
8. Teak Stocks: Teak is not an ideal gunstock wood, its brittle and closed grained, it splits, shatters and peals. It would be the equivalent of stocking the gun with locust wood, great for decking and fetching but bad for guns.
9. Barrels: the barrels tend to be heavier, some are drawn over mandrel welded, I’d avoid any with DOM barrels, only hydraulic or solid carbon steel tubing.
Click to expand...
Sir you are completely wrong on so many points that it proves you are a gullible person who believes anything you read on the internet. Never owning one is not a place to make up facts that are out Right lies. I have owned four of them and never had so much as a flash in the pan. Every one of them function is flawless. Please don't act like a US politician and spout falsities.
 
maillemaker said:
Note that this has nothing to do with them being manufactured to be firearms, which is what I stated earlier. It does not matter what was "designed". All that matters is what was sold. The Indian manufacturers are not selling functional firearms. As such, I doubt they will take any responsibility or liability for anything that goes wrong with one if it was converted to become a firearm. I also doubt you could sue them to force them to do so.
Click to expand...
Sir please what do you mean by something going wrong. There has never been any evidence or proof of catastrophic failure. Everyone has been Human error. IE mud in barrels and not properly seated projectiles. They are not allowed to drill touch holes because of laws in their country.
 
jd945043 said:
Sir you are completely wrong on so many points that it proves you are a gullible person who believes anything you read on the internet. Never owning one is not a place to make up facts that are out Right lies. I have owned four of them and never had so much as a flash in the pan. Every one of them function is flawless. Please don't act like a US politician and spout falsities.
Click to expand...
Ever think maybe you've either gotten them from a better source, or just gotten lucky? Why would you discount everything said by people who have gotten guns that don't spark due to soft frizzens, other lock and ignition issues due to other issues of cheap lock construction?

It isn't a case of one guy who's never owned one saying that "quality" varies widely with India made guns. It is many people with a wide range of experiences from guns that work fine to outright junk. This includes people who sell them saying they often need work.

Not to mention that most of us are skeptical of,
jd945043 said:
never had so much as a flash in the pan. Every one of them function is flawless.
Click to expand...
Sounds like a "politician" from just about anywhere (yes, I notice you single out "US politician). Either lying, exaggerating, or you just don't shoot much. Maybe all three.
 
jd945043 said:
Sir you are completely wrong on so many points that it proves you are a gullible person who believes anything you read on the internet. Never owning one is not a place to make up facts that are out Right lies. I have owned four of them and never had so much as a flash in the pan. Every one of them function is flawless. Please don't act like a US politician and spout falsities.
Click to expand...

My experience is not based on heresay, i have had indian made guns in my shop and have worked on the locks and viewed the barrels.

I have one in my shop currently. Read above.

All of my statements are based on actual work.

I understand that you’ve been sold something and need to be convinced that your investment was worthwhile.

Regardless of how you or I feel about Indian made arms one fact remains.

The people who purchase these Indian made muskets are doing so with very little knowledge of what they’re actually doing.

I build locks from castings of my own, the rifle shoppe’s and various others. I get at least 2-3 calls a month by people who are asking to purchase my locks.

When I sell my locks, i provide excellent customer service and ask them about their specific project because i dont’ want to sell a useless lock to someone.

Of the calls i get, the queries involve buyers who wish to use my locks on Indian made guns because their locks are either broken, don’t work well or are missing specific parts that can’t be replaced.

Then in have to inform them that my locks will not ‘drop in’ to their stocks, its not a simple project replacing a lock, and it can’t be done at your kitchen table.

Buyers of Indian made muskets need to do their homework, research what you’re doing.

Buying an Indian made musket that you need to invest gunsmithing work out of the box is a poor purchase
 
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jd945043 said:
Sir you are completely wrong on so many points that it proves you are a gullible person who believes anything you read on the internet. Never owning one is not a place to make up facts that are out Right lies. I have owned four of them and never had so much as a flash in the pan. Every one of them function is flawless. Please don't act like a US politician and spout falsities.
Click to expand...
You can't tell FlinterNick anything. I'm with you. I own several, have vented many and have bought and sold about 50 or so I imported from India. I've never had an issue, nor has anyone I've sold them to. You just run into people who are stuck in their ways and that's it. Furthermore, anyone who charges $100 to $200 labor to just tune a lock, (plus parts and frizzen hardening) opinions aren't worth spit. Semper Fi.
 
jd945043 said:
Sir please what do you mean by something going wrong.
Click to expand...
When I say "something going wrong", I mean if anything fails to function as it should with an actual functioning firearm, then the manufacturer probably won't accept any liability because they did not manufacture an actual functioning firearm.

There has never been any evidence or proof of catastrophic failure. Everyone has been Human error. IE mud in barrels and not properly seated projectiles.
Click to expand...
And hopefully there never will be. If there is, though, you won't have any recourse with the manufacturer. If this is acceptable to you, fantastic, as long as you understand the risks you are undertaking.

And this is not some kind of novel or shocking position to take. Lots of us shoot original guns. There is no manufacturer I can go sue if my original Smith carbine blows up or otherwise causes me harm, either. We each of us examine the risks and benefits and make our choices.

Of course, at least I can take assurance from the fact that my Smith Carbine was manufactured to be a functional firearm, and passed US Government inspection as such.

They are not allowed to drill touch holes because of laws in their country.
Click to expand...
Yes, we all are in violent agreement as to why they are not drilling the touch holes.

It is completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

The only thing relevant to a buyer is that the end result is that you can no longer go back on the manufacturer with a problem related to a functional firearm because the manufacturer will probably tell you to go pound sand because they did not make a functional firearm. The reason why they chose to manufacture a non-functional firearm does not matter. You can't go to court and say, "But, your honor! They didn't drill the touch hole only because of the laws in their country!"
 
ColonialRifleSmith said:
I own several, have vented many and have bought and sold about 50 or so I imported from India. I've never had an issue,
Click to expand...
You yourself have said that you've have had to harden frizzens and do other lock work, and have done so for your guns and those of customers.
How is that not having an issue?
The thing should work before it ever left the hands of the person or people making it.

Now, I'm not in the "all India made guns are bad pieces of junk," camp. Not at all. But I do think from reading here for many years that quality varies widely to the point that one os taking a gamble buying one. Especially of they lack the ability, for whatever reason, to do the work needed if the gun they get doesn't work.

Again. Are they all junk? No. But to try to make it seem like they are all just fine is disingenuous,,,, at best.
People should know that of they buy one, some work might be needed,,, and some of it might require some skills that not everyone has.
It's called honesty.
 
Steve- some will argue till blue in the face that a Yugi, Lada and Pinto are fine automobiles. Same thing operative here.
 
Brokennock said:
You yourself have said that you've have had to harden frizzens and do other lock work, and have done so for your guns and those of customers.
How is that not having an issue?
The thing should work before it ever left the hands of the person or people making it.

Now, I'm not in the "all India made guns are bad pieces of junk," camp. Not at all. But I do think from reading here for many years that quality varies widely to the point that one os taking a gamble buying one. Especially of they lack the ability, for whatever reason, to do the work needed if the gun they get doesn't work.

Again. Are they all junk? No. But to try to make it seem like they are all just fine is disingenuous,,,, at best.
People should know that of they buy one, some work might be needed,,, and some of it might require some skills that not everyone has.
It's called honesty.
Click to expand...
I keep forgetting that I have to spell out every little detail on this forum. "Not having an issue" refers to major failures, not hardening frizzens, venting barrels and tuning locks. I can't count how many TC, CVA, Traditions, and Pedersoli's I've had to work on to get them field ready because their factory warranty repair is so backed up, their repair will take months to complete if not longer. If you actually took the time to read back a few discussions, you would have been able to follow the course of the conversation much more closely. To twist things around with only half the conversation shows ignorance on your part. If you said this to me in person, you'd be picking yourself up off the deck son. Semper Fi.
 
ColonialRifleSmith said:
I keep forgetting that I have to spell out every little detail on this forum. "Not having an issue" refers to major failures, not hardening frizzens, venting barrels and tuning locks. I can't count how many TC, CVA, Traditions, and Pedersoli's I've had to work on to get them field ready because their factory warranty repair is so backed up, their repair will take months to complete if not longer. If you actually took the time to read back a few discussions, you would have been able to follow the course of the conversation much more closely. To twist things around with only half the conversation shows ignorance on your part. If you said this to me in person, you'd be picking yourself up off the deck son. Semper Fi.
Click to expand...
You've got some pretty rude ways about you for a guy who's been here less than 60 days.

You have insulted some long time members who have contributed greatly to this forum.

"Not having an issue" is pretty definitive. A soft frizzen is a real issue.

Frankly, your posts sound a lot like you are trolling for work.
 
fireman1 said:
You've got some pretty rude ways about you for a guy who's been here less than 60 days.

You have insulted some long time members who have contributed greatly to this forum.

"Not having an issue" is pretty definitive. A soft frizzen is a real issue.

Frankly, your posts sound a lot like you are trolling for work.
Click to expand...
Having a frizzen that needs hardening is not a terrible issue. It takes me about 15 minutes, my forge and some Cherry Red. I take my hand cranked forge to events. I usually have 1 or 2 frizzens to harden from participants during the event. The way I see it, soon as I disagreed with one guy, the rest of your, (long time click) started jumping on the band wagon. If Y'all took offence, that's your problem. It's sad Y'all can't admit when you're wrong or at least have a civil discussion without, "getting offended". I think it's time to move on. Semper Fi. :horseback:
 
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ColonialRifleSmith said:
Having a frizzen that needs hardening is not a terrible issue. It takes me about 15 minutes, my forge and some Cherry Red. Semper Fi.
Click to expand...

What you just described is surface hardening which is not an adequate method of hardening a frizzen casted in 6150 or 1095.

Indian made frizzens are made with junk steel too, the steel is often recycled alloys and is nickel heavy. they need to be case hardened in a crucible with bone and wood charcoal at 1650 for 45 min to 1 hour then tempered at 350-380 for 1 hour.

Surface hardening is something you do for screws.

Yea you really know your stuff let me tell you and cherry red is garbage.

Oh and 15 min ? Is that serious?

I’d love to see what Wick would say about your method.
 
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ColonialRifleSmith said:
Having a frizzen that needs hardening is not a terrible issue. It takes me about 15 minutes, my forge and some Cherry Red. I take my hand cranked forge to events. I usually have 1 or 2 frizzens to harden from participants during the event. The way I see it, soon as I disagreed with one guy, the rest of your, (long time click) started jumping on the band wagon. If Y'all took offence, that's your problem. It's sad Y'all can't admit when you're wrong or at least have a civil discussion without, "getting offended". Semper Fi.
Click to expand...
The problem you have is apparent in this post. You think that you are the end all be all on the subject. You flat out are telling everyone who disagrees with you that they are wrong. Your posts have been offensive since you showed up in the thread. You insulted and belittle other members here. You have no idea of what they know, have seen or done. You simply think that you are smarter.

Hard to take a guy seriously who cannot spell.

Click.
noun


1.a short, sharp sound as of a switch being operated or of two hard objects coming quickly into contact.
"she heard the click of the door"


Clique.
noun

  1. a small group of people, with shared interests or other features in common, who spend time together and do not readily allow others to join them.
    "the old-school clique"
 

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