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Joined
Jan 19, 2023
Messages
9
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16
Location
Massachusetts
Please delete this if I am violating any rules! I read the rules and don't think I am, but I don't want to be that guy

I am considering opening a store/gunsmith shop in western Mass focused on muzzleloading guns. Aimed at hunters, reenactors and target shooters. I'm thinking of offering workshops and workspace as well as kits and factory made guns. I don't think I'd do much with modern firearms if anything. What are opinions on if this is a good idea? is there enough of a market to keep the doors open?
 
Dixon’s shop in Kempton PA is worth studying. It’s been going since the late 1970s through generations. It’s retail. No vacations. You need to be in the heart of muzzleloader country and within 2 hours drive for your customers to have a decent business. When Dixon’s started there was no online purchasing. Customers had to buy catalogs from suppliers then call them or mail an order. Now folks can shop online. Chuck spent time at the workbench when there was no customer traffic. I’d say you’d need to do something like that to keep you busy and making some money.

Log Cabin Shop may be another shop to study.
 
Dixon’s shop in Kempton PA is worth studying. It’s been going since the late 1970s through generations. It’s retail. No vacations. You need to be in the heart of muzzleloader country and within 2 hours drive for your customers to have a decent business. When Dixon’s started there was no online purchasing. Customers had to buy catalogs from suppliers then call them or mail an order. Now folks can shop online. Chuck spent time at the workbench when there was no customer traffic. I’d say you’d need to do something like that to keep you busy and making some money.

Log Cabin Shop may be another shop to study.
Thanks, I'm lost as to how I'd judge interest. All of the shops in my area have small BP sections that mostly focus on that "other kind of rifle".
 
Please delete this if I am violating any rules! I read the rules and don't think I am, but I don't want to be that guy

I am considering opening a store/gunsmith shop in western Mass focused on muzzleloading guns. Aimed at hunters, reenactors and target shooters. I'm thinking of offering workshops and workspace as well as kits and factory made guns. I don't think I'd do much with modern firearms if anything. What are opinions on if this is a good idea? is there enough of a market to keep the doors open?
So first, does Massachusetts require an FFL for muzzleloading firearms. IF it does then you might as well be a full service shop.

Second, you will need to look into getting a place to store black powder, and what the state says about that. Selling propellant at a good price will get people to come to your shop, but if Mass has stupid restrictions on it, then you might as well not try (imho).

Third, allowing people to use your shop will likely have huge liability. There is "Woodcraft of Maryland" a wood crafting supply store, which is also the home of The Woodworkers' Club. They allow members to come in and use their tools. I was going to join as I wanted to make some camp furniture, and crank out some inexpensive wood crates from surplus pallets, but the member PRICE was massive...., so was their insurance. Even if you don't use power tools, you get problems with that one guy who buggers -up a chisel, and then the other members have to suffer until it's replaced. etc.

On the other hand you might look into what a "club" is allowed to do. A private club should be able to buy BP in bulk for its members, and sell items dealing with the subject of the club to its members at a "member price". You as the club administrator would draw a salary, of course... if a private country club can sell golf equipment, than a private muzzle loading club can too (just be sure to pay sales tax). What it takes to be a "member" would be up to you......

LD
 
Please delete this if I am violating any rules! I read the rules and don't think I am, but I don't want to be that guy

I am considering opening a store/gunsmith shop in western Mass focused on muzzleloading guns. Aimed at hunters, reenactors and target shooters. I'm thinking of offering workshops and workspace as well as kits and factory made guns. I don't think I'd do much with modern firearms if anything. What are opinions on if this is a good idea? is there enough of a market to keep the doors open?
If you are a good competent muzzleloading gunsmith that is half the battle. If you lack good gunsmithing ability, I personally would not attempt a business like you suggest. Not saying it can't be accomplished, just makes the road to a good fruitful business a whole lot tougher. JMO
Larry
 
Just from reading here the last several years, the first question I would have to ask myself is, can I get inventory to stock my store? Most frequent questions asked here is where can I buy powder and caps?

Since there are essentially no American made traditional ML, can I get rifles and pistols to stock my store from Europe and how long will it take to get inventory here when I need it?

Back to inventory, can I go head to head with TOW, Dixie and Log Cabin on pricing?

With the interest in Traditional ML on the decline and considering the interest is seasonal, can I survive the lean months?
 
Good points to consider, I am currently taking finishing an AS in firearms technology from Sonoran Desert Institute. I don't think it has prepared me to set up as a competent gunsmith, but it's given me enough to know what I need to learn and refine. I'm in a good spot where I don't need a salary to survive, and if I setup shop on my own land (fronting a major state highway) then I can reduce my cost down pretty low and focus on inventory and customer service. In Mass, I'll need an FFL to get a dealer's license to get an explosive dealer's license just to sell BP, so I'll have options that this forum isn't interested in.

Thanks, everyone has had well thought out responses.
 
I would do a usage search in the area you want to open the shop, for instance are there any muzzleloading clubs, groups that are active in the area, perhaps a request to your local D.N.R. office for numbers of muzzleloader hunters in the area. The other thing is how many are traditional vs. modern muzzle loaders. In other words, is there a viable market for the traditional muzzle loading family to make it worthwhile.
 
Just from reading here the last several years, the first question I would have to ask myself is, can I get inventory to stock my store? Most frequent questions asked here is where can I buy powder and caps?

Since there are essentially no American made traditional ML, can I get rifles and pistols to stock my store from Europe and how long will it take to get inventory here when I need it?

Back to inventory, can I go head to head with TOW, Dixie and Log Cabin on pricing?

With the interest in Traditional ML on the decline and considering the interest is seasonal, can I survive the lean months?
Importing BP guns is much easier than modern firearms, I've researched that much. Suppliers and cost are another thing all together. How to gauge if you're correct on the decline? The two stores in decent range of me don't carry much because they say there isn't a market. I wonder if the market isn't there as much because they aren't focused on it. And you're right, how to keep the doors open all year?
 
So first, does Massachusetts require an FFL for muzzleloading firearms. IF it does then you might as well be a full service shop.

Second, you will need to look into getting a place to store black powder, and what the state says about that. Selling propellant at a good price will get people to come to your shop, but if Mass has stupid restrictions on it, then you might as well not try (imho).

Third, allowing people to use your shop will likely have huge liability. There is "Woodcraft of Maryland" a wood crafting supply store, which is also the home of The Woodworkers' Club. They allow members to come in and use their tools. I was going to join as I wanted to make some camp furniture, and crank out some inexpensive wood crates from surplus pallets, but the member PRICE was massive...., so was their insurance. Even if you don't use power tools, you get problems with that one guy who buggers -up a chisel, and then the other members have to suffer until it's replaced. etc.

On the other hand you might look into what a "club" is allowed to do. A private club should be able to buy BP in bulk for its members, and sell items dealing with the subject of the club to its members at a "member price". You as the club administrator would draw a salary, of course... if a private country club can sell golf equipment, than a private muzzle loading club can too (just be sure to pay sales tax). What it takes to be a "member" would be up to you......

LD
Yes, I'd need an FFL to get a state dealer's license so I could get an explosive dealer's license just to sell BP. On the other point you made, there's a "Maker Space" in the next town over. I'll go talk to them about insurance.

Thanks!
 
Decline of the hobby? There are less ML Clubs today than 10 years ago. The membership and retention at the NMLRA is major problem. The number of shooters at shoots continues to decline at all levels, nationally to the local level.

Common question of travelers here is, where can I find a place to shop as I drive across the country.

In all honesty the only reason TOW, Log Cabin and Dixie are still around is the internet. Printing and distributing catalogs is so expensive now that they have stopped making them.

How many folks here ask, where can I buy this?

ML as a sport would be dead and gone without the internet.

All powder until Goex comes up is foreign made. Swiss, made in Europe, comes by water, goes to Canada, unloaded finally then wanders to the US for distribution. Hard way to keep an inventory.
 
I had a shop for 26 yrs,,had to have all guns to make it work ( FFL) my mentor always said if you do good work at Fair prices YOU'LL always be busy....even sold Bait in the summer. Did 23 gun shows a year. took all of my spare time.But I made good money, I always kept my DAY JOB... A few years back we had a fulltime Black powder shop, He had a great trade, I couldn't deal with him, YOU had JUNK, HE had GOLD..He was Pretty Proud of himself. He had all the beginners MEZMERIZED as to how little they knew, don't be him..Be Safe >>>Wally
 
I would do a usage search in the area you want to open the shop, for instance are there any muzzleloading clubs, groups that are active in the area, perhaps a request to your local D.N.R. office for numbers of muzzleloader hunters in the area. The other thing is how many are traditional vs. modern muzzle loaders. In other words, is there a viable market for the traditional muzzle loading family to make it worthwhile.
I would have to support more than traditional shooters, and getting the nesissary licenses would allow me to do just that. According to a MassWildlife survey done in 2020-2021 there were 46,000 hunters overall in the state, 70% or 32,000 hunted during the primitive season also. Shot gun season (the only modern centerfire allowed) has shown a steady decline since 2002, while BP has a slow but steady increase of the same time.

This is turning out to be a great conversation, all really good ideas so far.
 
I had a shop for 26 yrs,,had to have all guns to make it work ( FFL) my mentor always said if you do good work at Fair prices YOU'LL always be busy....even sold Bait in the summer. Did 23 gun shows a year. took all of my spare time.But I made good money, I always kept my DAY JOB... A few years back we had a fulltime Black powder shop, He had a great trade, I couldn't deal with him, YOU had JUNK, HE had GOLD..He was Pretty Proud of himself. He had all the beginners MEZMERIZED as to how little they knew, don't be him..Be Safe >>>Wally
I need to talk to my mentor, he had a shop for awhile and closed it over management issues. Now he's concentrating on his main business of laser marking (he does all of guns Savage Arms makes). There's only one gunsmith in the area and he's a pain, used him once and never again.
 
My family owned a hunting fishing store with full gunsmith services for 30 yrs, been out of it awhile now, one thing to do is get your FFL then attend the SHOT show next yr, it use to always be in Jan. and talk with manufactures and suppliers to see what you can actually obtain, the fact that you can have the business on your own property means that you could start part time in the off season, and attend club shoots to advertise the business, like already mentioned to make it work takes commitment and time, reason I got out before the family sold it was I had no free time, 11 hr days 6 days a week, it was a thriving business when we sold it, people are looking for knowledge and service two things box stores and internet can't provide, good luck
 
From what I have seen, I don’t think you can have a viable brick and mortar (muzzleloader) shop without providing a wide range of quality smithing skills.
An excellent gunsmith would separate you from online vendors.
It would sure be a treat to have access to a well-stocked shop, with a great gunsmith, that specializes in black powder arms.
 
There's only one gunsmith in the area and he's a pain, used him once and never again.
Hmm, I wonder if his 1st name begins with a C and ends with the letter s?

It would be nice to have a shop within an hour/hour and a half that caters to traditional interests, especially if it offered the option to have lock work done at a reasonable cost in a reasonable amount of time.
But, unfortunately, I'm not sure there us enough local business to be had to keep the doors open. Being able to do some "mail order"/online sales would seem necessary. Might be better if you are closer to the lines of NH, VT, and NY than I think you are. Connecticut could use those services but it is a small state with only a few of us with deep traditional interests.
 
Please delete this if I am violating any rules! I read the rules and don't think I am, but I don't want to be that guy

I am considering opening a store/gunsmith shop in western Mass focused on muzzleloading guns. Aimed at hunters, reenactors and target shooters. I'm thinking of offering workshops and workspace as well as kits and factory made guns. I don't think I'd do much with modern firearms if anything. What are opinions on if this is a good idea? is there enough of a market to keep the doors open?
I’ll visit at least once a year. I hunt western mass with my ML. Would also consider a class
 
You need to do something called a "Small Business Feasibility Study"... or more likely, pay someone else to do it for you. Most people who start businesses have their eyes in the clouds and do not see the pitfalls that they are walking toward. I'll give you the entire course I took during the early 1980's in just one post. Your tuition will be free.

First ask yourself some pointed questions like:
  • "Why am I the smartest person in the state to see that there are enough customers to support this type of business?",
  • "How much money do I need to start this business?"
  • "Can I survive without making ANY money for at least a year and possibly having to put more money into the business?"
  • "Could I make more money by investing my start-up funding in mutual funds and/or working for a salary?"
Now, having answered those questions, here are some facts that you may not have considered:
  • Nearly all small business fail within the first year of operation.
  • Most small business do not have sufficient capital to start up properly.
  • Most people who start a business in an area that interests them are ill-suited to manage such a business.
  • Most owners of small businesses put in far more hours than forty a week and make far less money than they could working for someone else.
The first thing I did when I was tasked to manage a small gun shop was to organize it such that I didn't really have hardly any work to do. I set up digital templates for receipts, printed up forms to work with those receipts, developed procedures to determine optimal pricing, developed procedures for listing items for online sales and made everything as simple for my customers as I possibly could.

I set up surveillance in the shop and developed a relationship with local LEO. I helped catch at least one murderer and countless thieves who stole guns and then sold them to me. I managed to prevent at least one suicide that I know of (woman wanted me to load a gun for her so she could kill herself).

By the time I was done with my preparation, I actually "worked" for a couple hours a day on the average and spent most of the rest of my time browsing Gun Broker and/or chatting with customers about stuff that might or might not have anything to do with gun sales.

What I learned was that the best small businesses are "turn key" businesses. This means that the boss comes in the morning and turns the key to open the business and at the end of the day, he comes again, takes all the money and turns the key again to close the business. Then he goes to the bank and deposits the money. As the boss, you don't want to do anything you don't have to do, you hire others to do it for you and you spend your time training employees so you can go hunting. My boss had that down pretty well, except that he was the only gunsmith, so ended up working longer hours than I did.

A car wash, a video arcade and a laundromat are good examples of "turn key" businesses. If I were young, I would look to start that sort of business, train managers to handle day to day operations and spend my days at the range or in the field.

In a nutshell, small businesses are all about MAKING MONEY. If that is not your primary goal, then small business is not for you.

Now, don't let me dash your dreams. If you wanna do this, then do it and don't let a gray-bearded old far like me stop you. Just be realistic and don't just assume that everything will come up roses... 'cause it really won't do that. You are gonna have serious issues... especially starting this kind of business in a place like Massachusets.

All that said... good luck to you and I hope you succeed.
 

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