Walker or Dragoon ?

Wizard1962 said:

Thinking of adding another .44 cal cap & ball to my collection.

Cant make up my mind if I should pick up a Walker or Dragoon. Pietta or Uberti

So would like your pro,s and con,s of each model and what your preferences are.

Thanks in advance for sharing your advice and wisdom.

Bill

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I had a uberti walker new in presentation box for sale on here. It was deleted beause no picture it is a 44 $425 plus shipping. Jack 818 489-2464 I will post it with pic.

Stantheman86 said:

This gentleman just wanted a cool Colt Horse Pistol repro to probably shoot once in a while and display, and now he's being led down the Rabbit Hole of Goons work-overs, short arbors, guns beating themselves up etc etc

The knowledge contained in this forum is the best in the world and if you ask a question you're definitely going to get the best info out there here

If the OP just wants to punch paper here and there I think he'll be just fine with the gun as it left Uberti, or at most he can drop a couple 10mm washers in like I did with my Leech & Rigdon . Or stuff foil in the arbor hole

If he wants to make it the best it can be , he can send it to Goons

Never in history have blackpowder enthusiasts had this many options

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So, you've decided the op is going to shoot "once in a while" . . . who said?
He said he was adding to his arsenal . . .(sounds like more than an occasional "shooter")

He asked for "pros and cons".

I believe Crow Choker and I ( and others) posted that he could safely shoot some but not full house loads . . .

I'm pretty sure Crow Choker said he uses washers . . .

You're the only one mentioning stuffing foil in the arbor hole . . . I'm not sure customers would like that as a "fix"

Sure, he could send it to me, but I haven't ask him to . . . I don't do that.

I didn't post to him I could set his SA up with an action setup that might be found in a $2,000.00 FA ( but theirs doesn't have an action stop or a bolt block . . . that would be extra).

I have noticed some here seem treat these as " throw away revolvers" and that's fine, but not everyone can treat them as such. Just because they're relatively inexpensive doesn't mean they can't be made into an excellent revolver ( Colt thought they were good enough for the 2nd Gens.).

Some folks like "finer" things, others are good with throw aways.

Mike

jack said:

I had a uberti walker new in presentation box for sale on here. It was deleted beause no picture it is a 44 $425 plus shipping. Jack 818 489-2464 I will post it with pic.

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Thanks for the offer Jack. But will have to pass. Wife will string me up if I get another pistola.

45D said:

So, you've decided the op is going to shoot "once in a while" . . . who said?
He said he was adding to his arsenal . . .(sounds like more than an occasional "shooter")

He asked for "pros and cons".

I believe Crow Choker and I ( and others) posted that he could safely shoot some but not full house loads . . .

I'm pretty sure Crow Choker said he uses washers . . .

You're the only one mentioning stuffing foil in the arbor hole . . . I'm not sure customers would like that as a "fix"

Sure, he could send it to me, but I haven't ask him to . . . I don't do that.

I didn't post to him I could set his SA up with an action setup that might be found in a $2,000.00 FA ( but theirs doesn't have an action stop or a bolt block . . . that would be extra).

I have noticed some here seem treat these as " throw away revolvers" and that's fine, but not everyone can treat them as such. Just because they're relatively inexpensive doesn't mean they can't be made into an excellent revolver ( Colt thought they were good enough for the 2nd Gens.).

Some folks like "finer" things, others are good with throw aways.

Mike

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I do have 5,000+ rounds through my box stock Uberti 1851 Navy that's had nothing done to it, but I shoot blackpowder loads and round balls through it not smokeless cartridges it is funny how certain people get a "pass" on the rules here

How many people prior to 1865 were running smokeless .45 Long Colt through Colt Dragoons Can I post about shooting my Trapdoor here now too? It's basically a musket set up for cartridges, no?

Setting up a reproduction Italian percussion revolver to run smokeless brass cartridge ammo is complete Apples and Oranges to their original period usage but that gets glossed over in these seemingly twice weekly threads about Ubertis being unsuitable out of the box

The Tin Foil works so far, maybe you don't like Reynolds Wrap being a source of competition

I'd wager 95% of owners of percussion revolvers don't shoot enough to worry about any of this stuff and putting a couple hundred rounds through them a year is probably more than most people do with them. I am just using the law of averages and deductive reasoning that the OP isn't out blowing off 1,000+ rounds a month through percussion revolvers or else he probably wouldn't need to ask why a Walker or Dragoon are different, because people who shoot a ton of rounds through percussion revolvers would probably already have had these answers.

Stantheman86 said:

I do have 5,000+ rounds through my box stock Uberti 1851 Navy that's had nothing done to it, but I shoot blackpowder loads and round balls through it not smokeless cartridges it is funny how certain people get a "pass" on the rules here

How many people prior to 1865 were running smokeless .45 Long Colt through Colt Dragoons Can I post about shooting my Trapdoor here now too? It's basically a musket set up for cartridges, no?

Setting up a reproduction Italian percussion revolver to run smokeless brass cartridge ammo is complete Apples and Oranges to their original period usage but that gets glossed over in these seemingly twice weekly threads about Ubertis being unsuitable out of the box

The Tin Foil works so far, maybe you don't like Reynolds Wrap being a source of competition

I'd wager 95% of owners of percussion revolvers don't shoot enough to worry about any of this stuff and putting a couple hundred rounds through them a year is probably more than most people do with them. I am just using the law of averages and deductive reasoning that the OP isn't out blowing off 1,000+ rounds a month through percussion revolvers or else he probably wouldn't need to ask why a Walker or Dragoon are different, because people who shoot a ton of rounds through percussion revolvers would probably already have had these answers.

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I see what your saying now !!!! Silly me!!

My experience / history shooting bp with these revolvers doesn't count . . . only yours!!
Personally, I don't care if you've shot a million rounds through a box stock revolver, it doesn't mean a thing to me! The revolvers you're shooting aren't clones or even reproductions of . . . they're "attempted copys" . . . not built to the design of the originals. You want everything to be done "like it was" . . . except for the build of the very revolvers you want to shoot!
I come in here and explain what should be done to make yours MORE authentic ( the way the originals were set up) and a member of this " most knowledgeable forum in the world" (hardly!!!!) wants me to shut up!.

Apples and oranges? Not really. More like "closer to authentic" than what came in the box!!

Mike

45D said:

I see what your saying now !!!! Silly me!!

My experience / history shooting bp with these revolvers doesn't count . . . only yours!!
Personally, I don't care if you've shot a million rounds through a box stock revolver, it doesn't mean a thing to me! The revolvers you're shooting aren't clones or even reproductions of . . . they're "attempted copys" . . . not built to the design of the originals. You want everything to be done "like it was" . . . except for the build of the very revolvers you want to shoot!
I come in here and explain what should be done to make yours MORE authentic ( the way the originals were set up) and a member of this " most knowledgeable forum in the world" (hardly!!!!) wants me to shut up!.

Apples and oranges? Not really. More like "closer to authentic" than what came in the box!!

Mike

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Plus one to 45D

45D said:

I see what your saying now !!!! Silly me!!

My experience / history shooting bp with these revolvers doesn't count . . . only yours!!
Personally, I don't care if you've shot a million rounds through a box stock revolver, it doesn't mean a thing to me! The revolvers you're shooting aren't clones or even reproductions of . . . they're "attempted copys" . . . not built to the design of the originals. You want everything to be done "like it was" . . . except for the build of the very revolvers you want to shoot!
I come in here and explain what should be done to make yours MORE authentic ( the way the originals were set up) and a member of this " most knowledgeable forum in the world" (hardly!!!!) wants me to shut up!.

Apples and oranges? Not really. More like "closer to authentic" than what came in the box!!

Mike

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No I'm just taking note of the fact that not long ago a thread would get shut down for even alluding to a sabot but now we have guys openly discussing blasting hot .45 Long Colt cartridges through conversion cylinders like it's cool

If you wanna reinvent the wheel and use Italian reproductions of percussion revolvers to convert to cartridge revolvers that can handle Ruger Only .45 LC, then drive on, you do you . Variety is the Spice of life

There's no need to tell other people they're "wrong" all the time because they haven't made "corrections" to perfectly functional revolvers, all with your "Don't bother to check that Uberti!!! The arbor is short!!! I just know it is because they're all WRONG!Ha!" This is a hobby, it's not like National Security or the lives of millions is at stake here. We're talking reproduction revolvers that 99% of us use to shoot holes in paper in our free time. Let's all take a breath and relax

You are obviously very experienced and knowledgeable, and you are probably one of the foremost technical experts on percussion revolvers on Earth. I get it. You just have a Type A personality, or you enjoy spirited conversations, and that's ok.

Now excuse me, I need to pack my range bag so I can go blow 100 rounds through my 2nd Gen Dragoon that has tin foil in the arbor well

45D said:

I see what your saying now !!!! Silly me!!

My experience / history shooting bp with these revolvers doesn't count . . . only yours!!
Personally, I don't care if you've shot a million rounds through a box stock revolver, it doesn't mean a thing to me! The revolvers you're shooting aren't clones or even reproductions of . . . they're "attempted copys" . . . not built to the design of the originals. You want everything to be done "like it was" . . . except for the build of the very revolvers you want to shoot!
I come in here and explain what should be done to make yours MORE authentic ( the way the originals were set up) and a member of this " most knowledgeable forum in the world" (hardly!!!!) wants me to shut up!.

Apples and oranges? Not really. More like "closer to authentic" than what came in the box!!

Mike

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original colts had a cap deflector?

SPQR70AD said:

original colts had a cap deflector?

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Nope, they didn't have thin caps like we have today. The main topic in this particular "spat" is the arbor.

Mike

Gentlemen. I started this post looking for opinions between the the Walker and Dragoon pistols. It has turned into a pissing match on the arbors and setup of the Uberti pistols. While I respect you and everyone's opinion, let's keep it civil and on topic. Everyone has a right to their opinion, and I respect that. But being controversial and arguing is not going to accomplish anything.
So let's be respectful and courteous please. Thank you

Bill

I decided to use the Tin Foil fix in this 2nd Gen Colt Dragoon 3rd Model. This technique worked well in my Walkers .


Take small pieces of foil, one at a time and use the arbor as a "rammer". Test Fit by tapping (not hammering) the wedge with the cylinder in, until it makes that beautiful sound that a brass hammer makes tapping on a wedge when the arbor is bottomed out and the b/c gap is satisfactory. If you add too much, fish it out with a pick and start again. Easy Peasy





Off to the range after 10 minutes of foil stuffing.



50 gr spout on my flask, OE 1.5F because I was too lazy to go out to the shed to get 3f. .454 round balls. Used lubed wads but it was a tight fit, went to Crisco over the chambers.



Shooting at 40 yards, one handed, it hits high but that's to be expected. I pushed off to the left on some but it's 30 out so I get a pass on that.



Here's some videos for people still on the fence about getting a Dragoon, and intend to use it as a percussion revolver , as designed. 50 grains ripping out big lead balls , or bullets, is a very fun shooting experience. For reference a .45 LC used 40 grains of blackpowder so 50 is basically a ".45 LC +P" for comparison. Lots of fun, and reaches out to 100. I have fired my Walkers to 100 plenty of times.

If people don't agree with the tin foil fix, don't use it . It works for me and I don't need to perform manual labor or send my guns to a guy just to go punch paper, then go grab a Subway sub

About an hour of pretending to be a gunslinger and killing paper villains, now it's back to reality

Thanks Stantheman86 for sharing your experience with your Dragoon. I appreciate you

Wizard1962 said:

Thanks Stantheman86 for sharing your experience with your Dragoon. I appreciate you

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You're Welcome

Basically I'll just add that the Dragoon can hold 50 gr and a ball or 40gr (maybe 45) and a conical in the chambers.

Most people don't go above 50gr charges in their Walkers anyway, with balls or conicals.... so the larger chamber capacity is more academic than anything. Even Colt recommended bumping down to 50gr charges in the original period.

Firing 60gr charges in my Walker didn't do much else than probably blow the extra 10gr out the pipe unburned anyway.

The levers drop on both, my lever dropped a few times today but it's an easy fix. My other Dragoon dropped the lever every shot, I just used a fine file to deepen the latch notch and it stopped.

Using full charges in these is mostly the point when the sun set today I felt like I was shooting a flintlock , the big ball of flame coming out the muzzle got pretty bright....plus smacking balls into the target backer at 200 yards is fun too.

People use light charges topped with corn meal in Walkers and Dragoons which is fine, do whatever works but these were the Magnums of their day, and I shoot them as such

gty598 said:

It depends how you perceive the history. The Walker was and is a rare gun that Colt improved into the Dragoon. I prefer Dragoons myself since they are the heavier template for the later models, but the Walker is a beast with its own special ties to Texas and the expansionist period.

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The Walker has developed an almost mythical status and it is the official state gun of Texas

The Mexican Army believed the Walker had the ability to kill men at 1000 yards and they were afraid of the Walker armed Rangers.

The Colt Walker is one of the most American guns that exist. After the relative success of the Paterson, Capt Walker went to Sam Colt, and asked him if he could make his men an enormous revolver that fired a huge powder charge and a bullet , so the Rangers could shoot people at long distances , and he wanted to give his men pairs of them....Sam Colt was like ok we can do that..and so was born the Colt Walker. If that's not America I don't know what is.

SPQR70AD said:

original colts had a cap deflector?

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I forgot to add, the safety slot in the originals was quite thin compared to the Italian versions. Thicker hull material wouldn't be so easy to be forced into the skinny slot. The things we use today are "modern" fixes to a "modern" problem. Especially with "speed" introduced in CAS, lighter mains allow for spent caps/frags to be free to fall into the action.

Mike

Wizard1962 said:

Thinking of adding another .44 cal cap & ball to my collection.

Cant make up my mind if I should pick up a Walker or Dragoon. Pietta or Uberti

So would like your pro,s and con,s of each model and what your preferences are.

Thanks in advance for sharing your advice and wisdom.

Bill

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Go with Uberti. All of mine have been good to me.

Flintlock Whiskey said:

Go with Uberti. All of mine have been good to me.

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Thanks ! I ended up getting a Uberti Whittneyville Dragoon.

All I know is that this Goonerized Whitneyville is as good of shooter as the ROA under it!

Wizard, have ya had a chance to shoot that WhitneyVille yet?