With Traditions Drums You MUST Remove The Bolster Screw.....Pics

While prepping an old Traditions barrel for a new tang and drum I discovered this.

There is a wall between the drum chamber and the bore. With a 1/8th hole drilled through it. That wall is just under 1/4" thick.

To see if this is normal or a manufacturing error, I ran a small cleaning brush with patch down the barrel of another Traditions barrel. And sure enough, it has the same set up. The tip of the brush broke through the patch and entered the small hole.

If you have a Traditions firearm, you have to remove the drum screw and clean that area out. I've read several times on various forums that removing the bolster screw is not required to clean the bore. It is absolutely required with this terrible chamber design.

Wadded up pipe cleaners work well to clean this area.

64Springer said:

P.S. I'm half tempted to run a drill down these barrels and remove that wall.

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I would be very cautious about doing something like this...

Dale Allen Raby said:

I would be very cautious about doing something like this...

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Too much pressure on the drum threads when setting off the charge?

Drilling out the wall idea removed from my original post.

Best to keep everyone safe.

Thanks, Guys.

64Springer said:

Too much pressure on the drum threads when setting off the charge?

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Well, maybe. I am not the engineer who designed this barrel. I don't have testing facilities or the knowledge of material strength for the materials used to make a judgement call on that. In my experience though, engineers usually have a reason for the things they engineer. I do think it is a bad design, but maybe with the steel they are using, it is necessary.

Yet another reason to avoid Traditions rifles though...

I am reminded of a story about a Japanese steam locomotive company who bought a locomotive made in USA to copy. It was damaged in shipping... a dent was made in the boiler housing. It was symmetrical and looked like it was made that way. The Japanese company copied the whole design, including the dent and made a whole class of locomotives with the dent. They assumed that the American's knew what they were doing. I have no proof of veracity for this story, but I could see it happening.

Well, @Dale Allen Raby, The Japanese (Miroku) did just that when they built their Brown Bess based on the sample which had a bent trigger guard.

That is how Traditions used their version of a ‘Patent Breech’, as originated by Henry Nock in the 1800s. However, Nock’s design was for improved ignition, whereas I believe the imports do it due to lawyers (i.e., longer length of breech plug threads).

That design allows the breech plug to be longer, but then results in a sub-caliber bore for some distance forward of the drum, or touch hole in the case of their flintlocks.

If you would have just removed the drum,, you could have un-screwed the breech plug instead of cutting both off.
You have re-discovered how they install and index their breech system.
Here is how and why they do it;

"Yet another reason to avoid Traditions rifles though..." ???

I shoot and clean my traditions muzzleloaders just like all the others and feel my regime is better than most. I LIKE traditions. Been shooting them just about 50 years now (49.5 is pretty close). Did get a Kibler but per other posts have yet to shoot it. Of not for Traditions, CVA and the like I would not have been shooting BP 49.5 years and harvested near a ton of healthy tabke fare.!!

necchi said:

If you would have just removed the drum,, you could have un-screwed the breech plug instead of cutting both off.
You have re-discovered how they install and index their breech system.
Here is how and why they do it;

View attachment 188707

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I'm doing a scratch pistol build.

New tang. New drum with no nipple hole drilled and tapped. All with standard threads. No metric manure.

The picture you provided is nothing like the Traditions system. The CVA drum has access from the bore using a very small brush and patch.

The Traditions drum is completely isolated from the bore.

azmntman said:

"Yet another reason to avoid Traditions rifles though..." ???

I shoot and clean my traditions muzzleloaders just like all the others and feel my regime is better than most. I LIKE traditions. Been shooting them just about 50 years now (49.5 is pretty close). Did get a Kibler but per other posts have yet to shoot it. Of not for Traditions, CVA and the like I would not have been shooting BP 49.5 years and harvested near a ton of healthy tabke fare.!!

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I LOVE traditions.

Been shooting them just about 40 years now.

64Springer said:

The picture you provided is nothing like the Traditions system. The CVA drum has access from the bore using a very small brush and patch.

The Traditions drum is completely isolated from the bore.

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,,Ok.
Of course it's isolated from the bore, it's in the breech and yes, there is a hole,, how it gets there is described in the photo I shared.
They use the term "communication hole",,
It's all there man,,
Have fun with your build,

azmntman said:

"Yet another reason to avoid Traditions rifles though..." ???

I shoot and clean my traditions muzzleloaders just like all the others and feel my regime is better than most. I LIKE traditions. Been shooting them just about 50 years now (49.5 is pretty close). Did get a Kibler but per other posts have yet to shoot it. Of not for Traditions, CVA and the like I would not have been shooting BP 49.5 years and harvested near a ton of healthy tabke fare.!!

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Well, I have long lived by the maxim that: "There is T/C and then there is everybody else." I think this still applies, at least to production guns, but it's a free country in which everybody can shoot whatever they want... and can afford. I have mostly T/C guns muzzleloaders, with one Browning and one Austin & Halleck.

I don't really think the Browning and the Austin & Halleck guns are any better than the T/C guns, only more expensive.

I have a .45 TC Hawkin. NICE gun. A bit more solid for lack or a better word. My two CVA Hawkins shoot notably better groups, my Traditions the same accuracy. LOVE TC. But dont think any less of the others.

Pretty sure once I get the Kibler going I will be headed over to the dark side with flintlocks 95% and likely to sell some more guns. Like I said though....w/o that first CVA .45 KY kit at age 10, I would still be shooting bricks of .22 and the even more expensive .223 (I don't have or want a .223 btw). Pretty much a total BP guy myself.

64Springer said:

I'm doing a scratch pistol build.

New tang. New drum with no nipple hole drilled and tapped. All with standard threads. No metric manure.

The picture you provided is nothing like the Traditions system. The CVA drum has access from the bore using a very small brush and patch.

The Traditions drum is completely isolated from the bore.

Click to expand...

If the drum is completely isolated from the bore, how does the cap ignite the powder charge?

I generally like my .50 precussion CVA and it shoots well... for a while. On my regular club shoots I get fouling after about 20 shots in the barrel and breech area and it affects reliability. Toward the end of every shoot I have to remove the barrel screw and clean out the fouling that simply capping won't remove.

Dale Allen Raby said:

I would be very cautious about doing something like this...

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I have done it on several. I don't run a drill down the barrel . I remove the breach plug and bore it to the bore size. The old traditions flint locks and CVA had very poor ignition if you didn't do that.

CZMark said:

If the drum is completely isolated from the bore, how does the cap ignite the powder charge?

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The theory is that enough powder gets to the flash chamber. For awhile it does. I suspect that lawyers had something to do with this design

flconch53 said:

I have done it on several. I don't run a drill down the barrel . I remove the breach plug and bore it to the bore size. The old traditions flint locks and CVA had very poor ignition if you didn't do that.

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I did this with my Traditions flint lock, hole was .177" (4.5mm) and I drill it out to 1/4" , now the hole doesn't foul over after 5 to 10 shots.