The Future of Traditional Muzzleloaders?

New to the forum and wanted to give my two cents. Have shot a 50 cal renegade since 73 and have a 32 cal for plinking. Live in New Jersey and look over my shoulder after every shot for the police in my yard. Sorry to say but most anyone I know who shoots BP has an inline. Most people I know who shoot bow use a cross bow. My friends and club members who fly fish look like they walked out of an orvis store. There has to be a tie in there some where. can you find a place to hunt,fish or even walk if it isn’t a state game land. Difficult on the east coast for most.
( luckily not me). I have to agree with lower end rifles that are safe. Gotta get them hooked.

Campbell said:

The future of traditional muzzleloaders is bright! I have a 27 year old son, two mid 20’s sons-in-law and a grandson. They are all involved in traditional black powder shooting (except the 18 month old grandson ;-) !

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Give him time.

I think some manufacturers have dropped out due to market saturation, and demand for higher quality products. Some were a real manure shoot for dependability.
The large manufacturers had CNC to make their parts, yet they stayed with outdated incorrect designs for years. Kibler picked up the ball and ran with it, making a quality kit that assembles as easily as the old Lyman kits.
We have a lot of interest by young people in this area. Brain tanning is even taught at one of the local grade schools to the students!

Lack of a place to shoot, I am 60, all through the 1980's and 90's over 1,000 shooting ranges closed across the U.S.. A Local one near me will not even let B.P. shooters shoot, said they don't want a forest fire! There is alot working against us, all we can do is try to educate those who will listen.

kyron4 said:

Careful , your elitism is showing

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Good, I was afraid nobody would notice.

Theres enough used ones in the pipeline to take care of the needs of the new people that are getting into it after they get sick of 1000s of rounds for naught with the semi autos.The ammo shortage and high prices of it brought me a few younger guys to feed there need to put lead down range.Now there hooked.

Frontier's said:

Exactly. I've been going 15+ years and my $289 Traditions Hawken is still my go to gun. I've handled many custom guns by big name builders and haven't been impressed.

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I have great respect for the man who knows his rifle and what it can do.

Go into any pawn shop and you'll see all that low end junk filling up the gun racks. So much of that stuff has been made they can't get rid of it now.
Nobody held my hand and brought me into traditional muzzleloading. I was ate up with history from an early age, couldn't get enough. So at 23 I bought a T/C and went to my first shoot. As soon as I got there I saw that my T/C wasn't as cool as I thought it was. I saved money and bought parts until I had enough to put together my first gun. I was only making $4 an hour but I made it work.

Most of us will be gone in 20 years or less and the pawnshops will be full of cheap Muzzleloaders.

i started mlers in the late 60 s early 70s with a 200.00 cva kit rifle and butchered it from lack of skill but it shot and was on target at 100 yards . deer or other game could care less about the cost of the gun that did em in

Crazy Jay said:

Most of us will be gone in 20 years or less and the pawnshops will be full of cheap Muzzleloaders.

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Unfortunately, that’s the truth.

I can see what you are saying as far as it applies to easy to obtain production rifles. But I don’t think that will be the end all be all of those companies went away, it just might cost us a lot more, and those new to muzzleloaders who are dead set on traditional may have to save a bit longer. With the Quality of rifles and kits we are seeing from companies like TVM, Kibler, Chambers, Pecatonnica, etc. those companies will keep it alive and well, at least for those of us who already have the bug. From what I’ve seen, the majority of people running to muzzleloaders are only looking for additional days in the field and are doing so as cheaply as they can legally get away with, and most have absolutely no interest in target shooting and/or improving the skill of shooting. Maybe that’s just my particular region. What I see here is guys buying up a $300 dollar traditions inline and if it hits paper at 50 yds, they are happy. I’ve tried helping said folks with their groups by suggesting a lower than 110gr charge, like say around 80gr, and they look at you like you’re stupid. Meanwhile, they go out and shoot elk in the ass with their horrible grouping shots and act like it’s normal.
With all of that said, I think that what is more more concerning than the big box sidelock names going away, is the decline in the type of people who enjoy history, fine craftsmanship, dedication to improving a skill, and pride themselves on being true sportsman. This affects a greater area than just traditional muzzleloading as well, but will certainly have an impact. Maybe our community needs to figure out how to be more proactive in educating the public on what and why we shoot what we shoot? I don’t know but I think the absence of interest is going to cause a bigger decline in people before we see rifle maker options disappear.

zimmerstutzen said:

The movie Davy Crockett and the centennial of the civil war, spurred a major interest in traditional muzzle loading. Modern style muzzle loaders were limited to one of a kind models from tinkerers' garages. Before the interest died down we were into the bicentennial of the revolution and Jeremiah Johnson, and How the West Was Won, (the TV series, not the movie) There have been a few sparks of popularity for traditional guns from Last of the Mohicans and the Patriot. The big numbers of hard core muzzle loader fans are dying off and getting too old. Manufacturers have really pulled the wool over the eyes of American hunters with the notion that retrofitted bolt action rifles with $7.00 bullets and elephant loads of Super Whup Butt 2000 powder are necessary for white tail. 60 years ago, the 30-30 was the standard for big game in PA. Anything more powerful was "over gunned" Now we have hunters who think a 460 magnum is necessary for anything over 50 yds. The notion that power will negate the need for accuracy has brought insanity to the deer woods. I have to laugh when I hear folks saying 150 grains and a 350 grain bullet are needed. My Grandfather shot many a deer with a 32 Rimfire back when rim fires were still legal in PA. What is even more astounding is the number of out door "experts" who will put their name on anything they are sponsored to say, except the truth.

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I just saw a trailer yesterday of a big epoch movie about Napoleon Bonaparte. If it has even a mild success it will garner some interest all over again...I hope.

I have had great luck with Pedersoli kits. colonial style 54 cal. pistol, . Pennsylvania 50 cal. rifle. Kentucky 45 cal rifle. All look great, shoot even better. Highly recommend them.

dave951 said:

Well, y'all might not like this but ....

Every response so far is negative and dwelling on the symptoms of the issue. Whining never fixed anything. Face it, the real enemy here is ourselves for not being more outgoing and supporting new shooters. Parochial arguments and snobbery of PRB, flint, percussion, long rifles, rondys, etc (while entertaining to us) are a bad vibe for a newbie. Next take the absolute lack of support for youth shooting sports with traditional arms and how in tarnation can you be wondering about all the graybeards? In short, nobody's refilling the pipeline while we all play with our stinky, smokey toys in our own little corner of firearms nerdyland.

Quit whining and look for solutions. We all see the problem, let's get moving on solving it.

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Yes! Bought my oldest son a traditions deerhunter perc kit gun for Christmas when he was 6. Hes now 10, has killed 2 deer with it, (first is my profile pic at 9 y.o.) and countless unsuspecting cardboard boxes. He loves it! I bought 2 more kit guns for friends who were interested, they built them with their kids, but the parents are lacking the motivation to shoot with the kids. As far as i know, the other two kits have never been shot. I bought a crockett last year, and killed 3 grey squirrels the first time out. Now my kid wants one. Lol. Its addictive as all get out, and the cheapest thing around to shoot. It just takes a local "friend" willing to share the passion and advice. Maybe each one of us should make it a goal to mentor at least 1 "youth" (for some, that may be a 50 year old, for others a 15), or start a small group of friends meeting to shoot and b.s. once a month or whatever... you cant change the world, but you can change your community. If each of us does that... the world changes.

I live in Southeast Oklahoma where fishing and hunting is a way of life. However, I must drive nearly 40 miles to a range. It is free to anyone who has a hunting license. It is provided by the fish and game department. It is fairly well equipped, with a long, covered bench and 200 yards available. I have been there several times and Betty and I are always alone. Sometimes there is some brass, but not much. I have never shot with another person here in Oklahoma. The nearest active club is many miles away. I have 'given' away six or seven guns to friends and family. They look very nice hanging on the wall or in gun cabinets. We went to a rendezvous a few years ago, about 100 miles away; the first person who spoke to us was critical of Betty's leather dress. It did not meet his standards. There was very little shooting, lots of gab and many vendors. It was disappointing to say the least. There was another rendezvous 80 miles South. It was better but discontinued due to covid. We have found little incentive to find other shooters. I have many ML guns and would gladly sell cheap to anyone under thirty who agrees to shoot them regularly. There was a heritage parade here some years ago. One [1] person was a mountain man. I cannot walk very far now, so Betty and I dressed in our finery [her white doeskin wedding dress is heavily beaded and valuable] and stood along the route. We scared a couple of grown ups to death. Our favorite restaurant servers still remind us about that day. Now our leathers, beadwork, and accoutrements are seldom seen by anyone. None of my neighbors had ever seen a traditional ML rifle. Sorry for the downer, but I see little hope for the future of ML. I am crying! Polecat and Li'l Sparrow [BTW: Assault rifles are known by everyone]

NorthFork said:

Honestly the "nerdy" is dead on. I prefer eccentric. But nerdy works. It just won't be as popular as other types of shooting.

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Non traditional thought patterns with eclectic taste in entertainment, education, social views and flexible beliefs.
I know what I know until facts prove me wrong. Then I know what I know until the next time Im proven wrong!

I’m not totally pessimistic about it, but I don’t see traditional ML growing, maybe just a slow decline as we leave this earth. Luckily, as others have said, my Sons like it, especially my oldest. But they have very little spare time to devote to it. Hopefully as they reach retirement they’ll immerse themselves in the sport. Lord knows they won’t need to buy anything. To me the lack of new interest in Traditional ML is the result of the mass rejection of Traditional values in our culture. But that’s a whole nother subject. On a direct reason, I blame the in-line craze. That alone took a big chunk out of our sport. And I was guilty of it too. I purchased a TC in-line maybe 15 years ago. I don’t shoot it anymore, but that was one less Pedersoli purchased.

if it weren't for the low end guns I wouldn't have any muzzle loaders

I can afford a $400 rifle, I can't afford a 2 grand custom.

I have a hunch that interest will start picking up again as we approach the 250th anniversary of the 1776 Declaration.

Historical interest seems to like "round numbers", and that's somewhat mid-way between the 100th anniversary of the Armistice of 1918, and Pearl Harbor / VE / VJ Day(s). July 4th is a bigger holiday nationally than Nov 11, Dec 7, May 8, Sept 2.

To most people, our involvement in, and the origins of WW I are somewhat confusing. Wilson has become somewhat of a historically disliked President. That doesn't seem to be the case yet for FDR. (But not as many people actually even KNOW when VE and VJ Days ARE vs. "Pearl Harbor Day", so landmark WW II dates are somewhat muddled.) That generation's now being labeled as the "Greatest Generation" seems to have cemented their place in history, and somewhat eclipsed the WW I set, though the "Boys of France" were certainly no less great.

And, it's (the 250th) an election year (though a mid-term). All politicians like to harken to patriotic themes and cast themselves as being the most "American" American candidate. Party-On Dude!