Acceptable hunting accuracy ?

Gentlemen, it strikes me that y’all are missing a key piece of info from the OP. Are his stated group sizes from a bench or offhand? That carries a lot of weight for me. If they’re offhand then what does it do from a bench? I shoot offhand some, but I don’t understand the fascination with it in a hunting situation. It’s not a judged competition where a rest can’t be used. If a rest is available I’m using it every time. Shooting sticks are easy to carry and if you’re in the woods a solid rest is pretty much everywhere.

French Colonial said:

Just as there are a lot of internet experts on most subjects there are a lot of internet sharpshooters as well.

Everyone thinks they are Matthew Quigley

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Amen to that!

Stykbow said:

Gentlemen, it strikes me that y’all are missing a key piece of info from the OP. Are his stated group sizes from a bench or offhand? That carries a lot of weight for me. If they’re offhand then what does it do from a bench? I shoot offhand some, but I don’t understand the fascination with it in a hunting situation. It’s not a judged competition where a rest can’t be used. If a rest is available I’m using it every time. Shooting sticks are easy to carry and if you’re in the woods a solid rest is pretty much everywhere.

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I agree. i can not think of a time when I did not use a tree, stump, crest of a hill etc for a rest, to take a shot.

chorizo said:

We aren't talking about shooter error here, we are talking the "mechanics" of the gun. 1.5" @ 50 yards equals 3" @ 100 yards. If the kill zone is 6" then a sighted in rifle at 100 yards is going to hit in the kill zone.

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With respect, that's not always true.

Some groups open up way more than that and I can think of specific examples where that thinking has lead to wounded and lost game. My brother (who's a better handloader than I) had a sako finlite 75 that grouped around MOA at 100m, but at 300m it couldn't hit an A4 piece of paper. It wasn't the shooter in that instance, he regularly shoots much further.

I would never condone sighting in a gun at 50, think well double that distance and I'll be fine and then go out bush. On top of having no idea how your group really is, the target is half the size, wind may be twice as bad, there may be twice the number of trees and shrubs between you and the deer. Add in any other environmental factor to mix etc. Not to mention paper plates don't give folks buck fever.

I personally find the Max distance I can consistently hit the kill zone of a deer and consider that too far. Better to stay within your range than at its limit.

Bushfire said:

With respect, that's not always true.

Some groups open up way more than that and I can think of specific examples where that thinking has lead to wounded and lost game. My brother (who's a better handloader than I) had a sako finlite 75 that grouped around MOA at 100m, but at 300m it couldn't hit an A4 piece of paper. It wasn't the shooter in that instance, he regularly shoots much further.

I would never condone sighting in a gun at 50, think well double that distance and I'll be fine and then go out bush. On top of having no idea how your group really is, the target is half the size, wind may be twice as bad, there may be twice the number of trees and shrubs between you and the deer. Add in any other environmental factor to mix etc. Not to mention paper plates don't give folks buck fever.

I personally find the Max distance I can consistently hit the kill zone of a deer and consider that too far. Better to stay within your range than at its limit.

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True.....theoretically speaking the cone analogy remains true, but as spin decreases and as does velocity things become unstable. If the bullet stays above supersonic (approximately1175 fps) then true, but as the bullets hits transonic then things go south. If it hits transonic and moves into subsonic, all bets are off.

Sighting in at 50, verify at 100 is a better way. I sight in at 50 with open sights, then verify at 100. If things don't go as expected, then more investigation is needed. However, if I keep my velocity to above 1200 fps out to 120, rarely is there an issue.

Everybody has their limitations and I respect a man that knowns his limitations and universally and reliably adheres to it. Buck fever, strength, practice wind and other issues all affect it. As I stated earlier there are some who can't hit their butt using both hands. Glad you know your limitations. I know mine and freezer is reflective of that.

2 shots said:

i understand what you are saying, and a deers kill zone. i am just saying that 5 inches off in any direction [ from center of your plate] is not o.k. with me.not when shooting at game. why say a shotgun pattern on a plate is good enough? just my opinion ,feel free to give up on me anytime you like.

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A cloverleaf is great but one hole won’t make a deader deer then this, it’s at fifty yards. My best smoothie shooting ever.
An archer can shoot better but I doubt if 99% of bowman could better this at half the range.
A maxie via a ‘compromise twist’ may not do much better and maybe worse
A minie from a rifled musket the same. However Bambi is going home for dinner, even twice the size

Concur, tenngun!

I agree with several folks who said to see what the GUN can do first, off a bench in a slow methodical range session at 50 yds. And this is assuming you've worked up "the load" that your guns shoot best with already. If you've already done both, one of three things. 1. The Caplock is just more accurate than the flintlock. 2. The load you've worked up for the flintlock needs tweaking. Could be any number of variables: ball dia, patching thickness, lube, powder, both how much and what kind. Or 3. YOU just shoot the caplock better.

My flintlock, off a bench, is VERY accurate! More accurate than my caplock. But offhand, I shoot my percussion Hawken better. It's shorter, lighter and has better sights. So that's the one I'll hunt with. Same might be the case for the OP. Or some load tweaking/expiramentation might turn that 3-4" group into a 1-2" group. Or you might burn a bunch of powder and lead just to find out your flintlock just isn't a tackdriver. It happens. I'd have someone else shoot it after you've done what you can do to confirm whether this is the case before writing it off. Either way, some serious range time should be in your future.

Snake Pleskin said:

I am in the 60- 50 yds class most of the time due to eye sight and primitive sights on ML's. I agree that shooting from the bench does not tell you what you can do in the field! That is a mistake many make and make it repeatedly! You must shoot from improvised "field" positions to know what you are really capable of. IMHO

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That goes for me too. With my bad eyesight and increasing difficulty standing up due to spinal stenosis, I have to limit my shots to taking them from a rest or not at all. Gone are my days of taking running shots at a pig 150 yds. away and dropping it. Even so, I still have the ability to enjoy a day out in the woods. If I get a chance for a shot within the range of my capabilities, I take it. If not, I pass. I am the limiting factor for sure, not the gun.

So what I'm getting from a few of you is that a margin for error,,,, when shooting at a living creature under real world conditions, is not desirable or possibly needed.

I'm so glad there are such clairvoyant experts in the world, that there are those for whom nothing ever goes wrong

Brokennock said:

So what I'm getting from a few of you is that a margin for error,,,, when shooting at a living creature under real world conditions, is not desirable or possibly needed.

I'm so glad there are such clairvoyant experts in the world, that there are those for whom nothing ever goes wrong

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No, most of us are saying that we practice enough with our equipment that we are more confident than you are with yours, so our margin for error is much smaller than yours.

Yes, things happen, yes, animals move...taken into account and factored into limitations.

I suggest you stay within your limited bubble as you seem very uncomfortable out of it.

chorizo said:

No, most of us are saying that we practice enough with our equipment that we are more confident than you are with yours, so our margin for error is much than yours.

Yes, things happen, yes, animals move...taken into account and factored into limitations.

I suggest you stay within your limited bubble as you seem very uncomfortable out of it.

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I tell everyone ml is archery on steroids. Get close, you want as short of range as possible, especially if shooting ball. Honestly I’m not impressed with the hundred and hundred and fifty yard shots with an ml. I’m impressed with the twenty and the tens. My closest was seven
Did I mention get close? Contact burns are your goal
By the way get close

chorizo said:

No, most of us are saying that we practice enough with our equipment that we are more confident than you are with yours, so our margin for error is much than yours.

Yes, things happen, yes, animals move...taken into account and factored into limitations.

I suggest you stay within your limited bubble as you seem very uncomfortable out of it.

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Look! You have no idea what I practice or don't practice! So don't even go there.
You also have no idea what the o.p. practices or doesn't practice.
So why advise him to seek the lowest standard possible?
We aren't talking about punching paper here.
If one seeks half a paper plate size groups then one has plenty of room for Mr. Murphy to get involved. And it is a very achievable goal.

chorizo said:

I suggest you stay within your limited bubble as you seem very uncomfortable out of it.

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You have no idea what you are even talking about.

There is no target on the side of a deer.
The heart is a little behind front shoulder and a bit above. Spine is a bit less then a third or is it a fifth down from the top of the shoulder. And neck kill zone is around a third from the top and about palm sized.
Where do you hold here?
I don’t photo dead animals out of respect for their sprit, but this little girl was dinner that night. Where to hold she was walking slowly. So my target was a tad behind leg body joint a smidgen above that good stop look around….. now

chorizo said:

No, most of us are saying that we practice enough with our equipment that we are more confident than you are with yours, so our margin for error is much smaller than yours.

Yes, things happen, yes, animals move...taken into account and factored into limitations.

I suggest you stay within your limited bubble as you seem very uncomfortable out of it.

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I do not think Brokenoock is either comfortable or uncomfortable. What I think is, you fail to take into account that YOU can not know what an animal will do at the last moment, any more than anyone else can, so there is no "factoring it in". Most ethical hunters will not take a shot that isn't 100%. #1. they do not need too. No reward ,trophy, or gold star etc for taking the shot. #2. No chance of a wounded animal when you Don't take the shot. It is quite simple. No "factoring" required.

If you don't know you can humanely kill a critter ...don't shoot.

tenngun said:

I tell everyone ml is archery on steroids. Get close, you want as short of range as possible, especially if shooting ball. Honestly I’m not impressed with the hundred and hundred and fifty yard shots with an ml. I’m impressed with the twenty and the tens. My closest was seven
Did I mention get close? Contact burns are your goal
By the way get close

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Counting coup on you animals? LOl ; )

tenngun said:

There is no target on the side of a deer.
The heart is a little behind front shoulder and a bit above. Spine is a bit less then a third or is it a fifth down from the top of the shoulder. And neck kill zone is around a third from the top and about palm sized.
Where do you hold here?
I don’t photo dead animals out of respect for their sprit, but this little girl was dinner that night. Where to hold she was walking slowly. So my target was a tad behind leg body joint a smidgen above that good stop look around….. nowView attachment 171629

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I would probably choose the Heart shot in this situation, IMHO

tenngun said:

There is no target on the side of a deer.
The heart is a little behind front shoulder and a bit above. Spine is a bit less then a third or is it a fifth down from the top of the shoulder. And neck kill zone is around a third from the top and about palm sized.
Where do you hold here?
I don’t photo dead animals out of respect for their sprit, but this little girl was dinner that night. Where to hold she was walking slowly. So my target was a tad behind leg body joint a smidgen above that good stop look around….. now

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I've taken the liberty of putting in a POV for the front sight to show the proper point of aim for a 200 yard shot. I remember the first and only time I drew a bead on a deer at 200 yards with open sights, my thinking was "no way on gods green earth!" I then lowered it.

I photograph some of the deer I kill but I respect that you don't. Too many are on the other end of the spectrum now.