1861 Enfield Musketoon accuracy problem.

mausernut · Nov 8, 2021

Trying to get my muzzleloaders sighted in. This is a Parker Hale Enfield Musketoon. The problem is that it consistently shoots 4 to 6 inches or more to the left at 50 yards. Am trying to use the 530 grain bullets from TOW, but have also tried patched balls with the same result. Not sure how to fix this as the sights aren't really adjustable. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Adrian62 · Oct 23, 2022

Hi there, here same problem with my P-H Musketoon, at 25 m. I had 4-5 inch groups. At 50m. 15 inch groups left high.
I have this rifle just a few weeks, so I guess I have to sort out which bullits and load combinations are best.
I used the Lee improved minie bullit .575, 470 gn. with 55gn of ffg bp.
I was wondering , since this topic is a year old, how did you fix the problem, if fixed at all.
Cheers, Ad

Stantheman86 · Oct 23, 2022

OK, hear me out.....

I have 2 P-H Musketoons and when I first fired them I was hitting to the left. The sight radius is very short and the trigger pulls are heavy like pretty much every military rifle and musket. From a sandbag, standing , it didn't matter.

I was pushing off to the left with my trigger pull and the 18" barrel isn't very forgiving of this with the almost pistol-like sight radius.

I firmed up my fundamentals, used the pad of my trigger finger and squeezed as I breathed out. And they hit dead nuts.

It's been a year so maybe he figured this out.

Other than that, if it's the rifle and not him, you can probably track down a Volunteer or Whitworth rear sight ladder as a Pedersoli part with the windage adjustable rear sight

Adrian62 · Oct 24, 2022

Okay, thanks for the advise and info, takes some time to figure out what works best for me to get tight groups. Thats part of the fun!
Cheers!

dave951 · Oct 24, 2022

I shoot a PH Musketoon in competition.

First off, I've said this many times- Track is NOT the place to get commercial minies. There is ONE source only I trust and that's Lodgewood because they deal exclusively in military muzzleloaders. Track is great on round ball, but minies are a completely different critter. Point of impact can be changed by simply changing components.

Second- as mentioned, the stock trigger pull is well, military. Couple that with the short sight radius and it's a recipe for frustration. Part and parcel to that is the unforgiving nature of black powder shooting fundamentals. You must have your fundamentals down cold for consistent accuracy.

Third- no mention of load data, barrel dimensions or size of the minie. That's pretty important in diagnosing a minie gun.

but what would I know about a musketoon-

Artificer · Oct 24, 2022

dave951 said:
I shoot a PH Musketoon in competition.

First off, I've said this many times- Track is NOT the place to get commercial minies. There is ONE source only I trust and that's Lodgewood because they deal exclusively in military muzzleloaders. Track is great on round ball, but minies are a completely different critter. Point of impact can be changed by simply changing components.

Dave,

Are these the ones you refer to in the post above?

Musket, carbine and round ball competition-grade bullets can be ordered directly from Pat Kaboskey. Please contact him directly for more details.

Pat Kaboskey
S80 W30650 Meadowlark Circle
Mukwonago WI 53149

[email protected]

(262) 363-4625

Bullets (lodgewood.com)

Gus

dave951 · Oct 24, 2022

Artificer said:
Dave,

Are these the ones you refer to in the post above?

Musket, carbine and round ball competition-grade bullets can be ordered directly from Pat Kaboskey. Please contact him directly for more details.

Pat Kaboskey
S80 W30650 Meadowlark Circle
Mukwonago WI 53149

[email protected]

(262) 363-4625

Bullets (lodgewood.com)

Gus

Yup. The only commercial source I trust. Everything I've gotten from him was quality

maillemaker · Oct 24, 2022

Nearly all the reproduction (and probably original) Civil War era muskets will shoot 8" or more high at 50 yards. These guns were not designed for such short-range shooting - their target practice started at 100 yards and the target was 22"x60".

Most competition shooters) N-SSA will have a taller, dovetail front sight installed. This will allow you to adjust for windage and elevation.

Alternatively, you can put a taller blade in place and cut the rear sight notch to the left or right as needed to adjust for windage.

Artificer · Oct 24, 2022

dave951 said:
Yup. The only commercial source I trust. Everything I've gotten from him was quality

Thank you.

Wow, if one began with using pin/plug gages to accurately determine their bore size and THEN ordered a trial quantity of minies in two sizes of (1.) .001" less than bore size and (2.) .002" less than bore size, they sure could cut through a lot of the learning stage with their rifle musket to see what shoots best in THEIR gun. THEN if they want to get into casting and sizing, they will already know what mold will work best in their gun and what sizing die or dies to buy.

It's tough to describe just how much work they would save themselves to get the best load for accuracy in their rifle, but it would sure save them a lot of work, time and money.

Gus

dave951 · Oct 24, 2022

Artificer said:
Thank you.

Wow, if one began with using pin/plug gages to accurately determine their bore size and THEN ordered a trial quantity of minies in two sizes of (1.) .001" less than bore size and (2.) .002" less than bore size, they sure could cut through a lot of the learning stage with their rifle musket to see what shoots best in THEIR gun. THEN if they want to get into casting and sizing, they will already know what mold will work best in their gun and what sizing die or dies to buy.

It's tough to describe just how much work they would save themselves to get the best load for accuracy in their rifle, but it would sure save them a lot of work, time and money.

Gus

Preaching to the choir Reverend.

I've been advocating this for a long time but with every herd, there's thems that refuses to drink when led to good water.

Artificer · Oct 24, 2022

dave951 said:
Preaching to the choir Reverend.

I've been advocating this for a long time but with every herd, there's thems that refuses to drink when led to good water.

Halleluiah Brother,

I came from round ball competition, NM rifle and pistol competition and revolver competition prior to skirmishing and though I'm one of those that tried all sorts of things in each gun to get the very best accuracy, I quickly learned it was a whole different story with Rifle Musket bore shooting.

Thanks for continuing to show new folks where and how to drink from the fountain of Musket Accuracy.

Gus

Stantheman86 · Oct 24, 2022

I use .575's or maybe .577's (until I shoot up the bag of them I have) and I don't worry about it

I also don't shoot in competitions so I'm not worried about my groups being 5-6" at 100 vs 2-3"

I roll paper cartridges and I can empty the 40 or 50 round box without wiping the bore, and .575's are capable of ventilating paper silhouettes from 100-300

I also have "a guy " who casts me bulk .575's and I lube and size them myself.

My musketoons will pop a 12"x12" swinger at 200 with .575's and a 60gr charge of 2f.

sportster73hp · Oct 25, 2022

I have a springfield that was rebarreled to 45 caliber, the rear site when flipped up has a round hole drilled at the base of the blade. Now i know why. It doesn’t have a front site on it so I don’t know where it hits

Elkpurgatoire · Oct 25, 2022

I had a similar problem with a PH 2 band rifle that I purchased in late seventies. I got a heckuva deal on it and discovered why… the rear sight was attached off center. A gunsmith in Gresham OR corrected the problem and did a beautiful job of rebluing the barrel. You might check if the same condition exists on your Musketoon.

Harmonica Bob · Oct 26, 2022

mausernut said:
Trying to get my muzzleloaders sighted in. This is a Parker Hale Enfield Musketoon. The problem is that it consistently shoots 4 to 6 inches or more to the left at 50 yards. Am trying to use the 530 grain bullets from TOW, but have also tried patched balls with the same result. Not sure how to fix this as the sights aren't really adjustable. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Parker Hale should be of the highest quality. First, don't try to make it do something that it was never designed to do. They don't shoot round balls. Target loads for NSSA compeating are 30 to 40 gr's of FFF with the 465gr Lee .575 "trash can" mini bullet mould. My Richmond has the same .577 size bore as the Enfield. They also use Lyman semi-wadcutter 418gr molds. I was taught to size the bullets to .002 under the size of the bore. The combat Civil War load was 60gr of FF and a +500 grain Minni for a rifle musket. Maybe the musketoon had a lighter load? Anyway, "less is more"! As for it going way to the left? The wind will do that to you! The gun should hit a clay pidgon at 50yds every single time, with the right load, and NO wind. AND NO SHOOTER ERROR lol. I have allot of experience, but I don't own a musketoon, and I don't, and will never know everything. They don't clean between shots. I would clean between relay's. My mind keeps going back to the wind! Other inconsistancies "should" just lead to lousy groups, not pull to the left. If I was having trouble with my musket's, I would go to the NSSA web site, and go to the section with all the vender's, gunsmith's, musket's, uniform's and just about anything a skirmisher or reenactor would need.

Stantheman86 · Oct 26, 2022

Elkpurgatoire said:
I had a similar problem with a PH 2 band rifle that I purchased in late seventies. I got a heckuva deal on it and discovered why… the rear sight was attached off center. A gunsmith in Gresham OR corrected the problem and did a beautiful job of rebluing the barrel. You might check if the same condition exists on your Musketoon.

I had a Pedersoli like that

Harmonica Bob · Oct 26, 2022

maillemaker said:
Nearly all the reproduction (and probably original) Civil War era muskets will shoot 8" or more high at 50 yards. These guns were not designed for such short-range shooting - their target practice started at 100 yards and the target was 22"x60".

Most competition shooters) N-SSA will have a taller, dovetail front sight installed. This will allow you to adjust for windage and elevation.

Alternatively, you can put a taller blade in place and cut the rear sight notch to the left or right as needed to adjust for windage.

When I was shooting NSSA matches, I met Bobby Hoyt, who is a gunsmith spesicializing in these guns. He set up my musket for compition and did a wonderful job! for a reasonable price. It was years ago, so I don't know if he has retired or not?

Harmonica Bob · Oct 26, 2022

Harmonica Bob said:
When I was shooting NSSA matches, I met Bobby Hoyt, who is a gunsmith spesicializing in these guns. He set up my musket for compition and did a wonderful job! for a reasonable price. It was years ago, so I don't know if he has retired or not?

Stantheman86 · Oct 26, 2022

Harmonica Bob said:
When I was shooting NSSA matches, I met Bobby Hoyt, who is a gunsmith spesicializing in these guns. He set up my musket for compition and did a wonderful job! for a reasonable price. It was years ago, so I don't know if he has retired or not?

I believe he's still doing barrels. One of my coworkers knows him.

He has a phone in his shop, no answering machine and no website.

Apparently you mail the barrel to him with $100 with a note of what you want done and he just mails it back to you when he's done.

Whitworth · Oct 26, 2022

Stantheman86 said:
I believe he's still doing barrels. One of my coworkers knows him.

He has a phone in his shop, no answering machine and no website.

Apparently you mail the barrel to him with $100 with a note of what you want done and he just mails it back to you when he's done.

He stretched, relined and put the bayonet lug back on my M1842 Harpers Ferry musket. I dropped it off at his shop and picked it up a couple of months later. When I did I asked him how much I owed him and he asked me what he had told me when I dropped it off, I replied that I hadn't asked how much. He replied "how about $200". I was quite happy with that. He's a gentleman/craftsman of the old school.

1861 Enfield Musketoon accuracy problem.

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