I don't know Brit, they both seem to be between ffff and fff in granule size, but comparing our pictures on the screen may be deceiving. I just don't know for sure. Where is that powder manufactured?
Robby
Robby
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Double dose.
- Thread starter Britsmoothy
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If those small piles were actually thrown by equal volume it would be indicative of why it could be hazardous, if shown by actual weight it would illustrate the quantity of the charge.
Equal energy by weight regardless of granulation.
Snake Pleskin
54 Cal.
I am not as versed in all these details as some. I use 3f (FFF)in my .50, .54, and .62 fowler because that's what i have. I use 4F(FFFF) for priming. Seems to work fine!
This is how it starts.
Suggestions with no evidence.
I have used equal volumes and still have both hands and eyes.
It is not dangerous or they would not make it!
Wasn’t a suggestion. Just an observation of the hazards of using measurements of grains by volume and weight. I think it’s been proven that in long barrel black powder guns it would be difficult to use enough powder, unless done so deliberately, to actually blow a gun apart using black powder. In several YouTube videos about all that happened was ruined stocks from excessive recoil on a rifle that was secured amd fired remotely. Seems it only becomes a bomb if both ends are securely plugged. Loaded properly excessive powder only turned into smoke, soot, flame and perhaps unburned powder.
Snake Pleskin
54 Cal.
There is always the (x) factor and murphy's law to contend with. Only a fool purposely tries to overload a muzzleloader. IMHO
Walkingeagle
54 Cal.
My shooting partner says to me on one of the last few trail shoots we were on. Shows me the powder in his horn and asks if I think its 3 or 4f powder? I reply that in my opinion it is to fine for 3f, and he agrees. He is pretty sure he put the wrong powder in his horn. Follows that with “oh well, lets see what happens”. He proceeds to load his standard 60gr followed by patch and ball in his 20g fowler. Touched it off and scored a hit. Absolutely no issues at all. Shot the whole trail, and as far as I know its still in his horn. Lol.
Walk
Walk
I agree. I only shoot revolvers and occasionally pistols. Revolvers are limited by how much one can fill the chamber and still seat the ball below flush and allow the cylinder to turn. Filling a Walkers chamber with 4F would, I assume produce a spectacular gout of flame from both muzzel and cylinder gap but not much else in terms of velocity or accuracy.
I can see using 4F as a frugal approach to shooting. Pound for pound less powder to accomplish the same task.
Please test and report back, much better than assuming. You might be impressed and reveal to yourself what Mr Walker already knew! That's me assuming there.
SwanShot
36 Cal.
Yeah I did that. Some guy was talking to me while I was loading 54 TC Hawkin. I was load developing at the time. Loaded two 75 grn loads of #3 powder behind a long, long hunting projectile, can't remember what it was, but it was big. Ohhh lordy but I knew what I had done as soon as I pulled that trigger. No damage, except to my shoulder and my general well being.
Oh, and it was a good shot.
Oh, and it was a good shot.
Would seem I’ve irked you Mr Britsmoothy. My apologies if so, certainly wasn’t intentional.
Assume is just a figure of speech.
Back when I didn’t know no better, I thought more powder would translate to more down range energy. I had a full stock Flintlock ‘Hawken’ in .54 one inch barrel. I was planning an elk hunt.
It shot great with 70 grains three f, old timers talked about double charges so I went to a 140 grain charge, it shot well.
But trying to balance every thing I finely settled on 120 grains, counting priming and spillage I could get fifty shots from a can. The maker of the barrel said 110 2 was max charge, but I was a wild and crazy kid who’d dance with the devil
Goes back to the same thing, if your gun can’t stand an excessive charge then it’s probably not safe to shoot.
It shot great with 70 grains three f, old timers talked about double charges so I went to a 140 grain charge, it shot well.
But trying to balance every thing I finely settled on 120 grains, counting priming and spillage I could get fifty shots from a can. The maker of the barrel said 110 2 was max charge, but I was a wild and crazy kid who’d dance with the devil
Goes back to the same thing, if your gun can’t stand an excessive charge then it’s probably not safe to shoot.
Not at all buddy.
This whole thing is based on assumption and that is my point.
In all the years of asking and reading I have found zero evidence that 4 f will destroy a firearm .
What everybody knows is always different then what anyone can prove.
I have to say, that I know you shooting safely, I know I could imitate you with out difficulty. But….
I also know that if I had 4f I would feel uncomfortable about dropping a charge down the bore, and after the fist shot would go ‘whew, well that didn’t kill me’
If you dip your fingers in water, and get them good and wet, you can dip them in to a pot of molten lead and not get burned.
But knowing that I would be scared to try it
Fears and facts aren’t always reasonable.
And this will remain for the time being an intellectual exercise as I don’t need to restock right now and have never owned a pound of 4
I'll take your word on the lead dipping.What everybody knows is always different then what anyone can prove.
I have to say, that I know you shooting safely, I know I could imitate you with out difficulty. But….
I also know that if I had 4f I would feel uncomfortable about dropping a charge down the bore, and after the fist shot would go ‘whew, well that didn’t kill me’
If you dip your fingers in water, and get them good and wet, you can dip them in to a pot of molten lead and not get burned.
But knowing that I would be scared to try it
Fears and facts aren’t always reasonable.
And this will remain for the time being an intellectual exercise as I don’t need to restock right now and have never owned a pound of 4
But if you do try it be sure to video it, for documentation purposes of course.
I've double charged several times over the years. As long as the loads are rammed fully to the breech, no harm will come, aside from more recoil. If your stock has poor grain through the wrist, it could conceivably crack.
Years ago, the old Sharon Rifle Co., then operating as Montana Rifle Barrel Co., they did some testing. As I recall, they loaded 1400 gr powder, and 14 patched round balls. No damage. The only way they were able to even bulge a barrel was by separating the ball from the charge, in effect making a pipe bomb.
Years ago, the old Sharon Rifle Co., then operating as Montana Rifle Barrel Co., they did some testing. As I recall, they loaded 1400 gr powder, and 14 patched round balls. No damage. The only way they were able to even bulge a barrel was by separating the ball from the charge, in effect making a pipe bomb.
Archer 756
40 Cal.
Just a note: Proofing a new built rife i use three time the normal load.
Crazy fools, don't they know lead is TOXIC!
