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Keeping a flap holster open?

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vim

Pilgrim
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I've heard of historical accounts of people cutting flap holsters to become what would be known as the Slim Jim holster, but was cutting the flap off necessary? Can the flap of the holster be comfortably tucked behind the belt in the open position?

It seems like there would be an advantage to a holster that could be closed to protect the revolver from the elements, or kept open when needing quick access to the firearm.

Thanks, I appreciate the wealth of knowledge here.
 
I reckon soldiers weren’t gun slingers. They charged into battle with revolvers in hand. I can definitely see a quick draw doing such a thing though. He’s made enough trouble for himself that he doesn’t know who’s out to ruin his day. In some of the old westerns they used to tie the muzzle end of the holster to the inside of their leg so it wouldn’t raise up and snag.
 
Hi hi I've heard of historical accounts of people cutting flap holsters to become what would be known as the Slim Jim holster, but was cutting the flap off necessary? Can the flap of the holster be comfortably tucked behind the belt in the open position?

It seems like there would be an advantage to a holster that could be closed to protect the revolver from the elements, or kept open when needing quick access to the firearm.

Thanks, I appreciate the wealth of knowledge here.
I have carried single action revolvers, percussion and cartridge, for coming up on 50 years. I would not consider carrying one in a flapless or strapless (no hold down leather thong) holster. Too easy for the pistol to work it’s way out of captivity and surprise you. Personally, carry mine under my coat on my hip or in a protected shoulder rig. Might reconsider no hold down or no flap if I were staring in a B Western, but it has been quite some time since any have been filmed. And even back in the day, stars like Tom Mix carried only double action revolvers in their flap-less or strapless holsters. Take a slow motion look at the old films.
 
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I have carried single action revolvers, percussion and cartridge, for coming up on 50 years. I would not consider carrying one in a flapless or strapless (no hold down leather thong) holster. Too easy for the pistol to work it’s way out of captivity and surprise you. Personally, carry mine under my coat on my hip or in a protected shoulder rig. Might reconsider no hold down or no flap if I were staring in a B Western, but it has been quite some time since any have been filmed. And even back in the day, stars like Tom Mix carried only double action revolvers in their flap-less or strapless holsters. Take a slow motion look at the old films.
Actually it takes quite a lot for a revolver to work its way out of a properly fitted holster. In fact, most historical holsters had no retention device whatsoever. It is mostly a Hollywood invention associated with quick draw rigs.
 
A holster flap secured by a metal stud in a slit and hole on the flap is easily and quickly opened. If you get one of those odd ones with a buckle do not be in a hurry.
If you are not particularly concerned about the elements, a snapped strap is effective and quick. The Patton and Tom Threepersons holsters from El Paso are good examples.
You wrote "when needing quick access". In that circumstance my weapon is more likely to be in my hand than in my holster.
 
Then there is always the half flap.

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Actually it takes quite a lot for a revolver to work its way out of a properly fitted holster. In fact, most historical holsters had no retention device whatsoever. It is mostly a Hollywood invention associated with quick draw rigs.
Interesting. I wonder why a guy like Elmore Keith bought into the ‘Hollywood invention’ of straps and hammer guards, at least in many of the photographs of his guns and their holsters? Never associated Keith to quick draw.
 
"Elmer" Keith was using holster designs that cover a lot less of the gun. The Lawrence #120 Keith was based on the Threepersons. He was also not a cowboy but spending most his time in the mountains. However, regardless of any of that, the strap or thong is an insurance policy. It does not actively keep the gun from falling out of the holster. If your gun falls out of your holster during normal activity, you need a new holster.

Study the book Packing Iron, you won't see any thongs on period holsters.
 
There isn’t anything wrong with just tucking the flap behind the belt if it isn’t uncomfortable. Many times in another life, I tucked the flap on my holster into my waistband. It didn’t stay like that all day, just for a few needed moments.
 
"Elmer" Keith was using holster designs that cover a lot less of the gun. The Lawrence #120 Keith was based on the Threepersons. He was also not a cowboy but spending most his time in the mountains. However, regardless of any of that, the strap or thong is an insurance policy. It does not actively keep the gun from falling out of the holster. If your gun falls out of your holster during normal activity, you need a new holster.

Study the book Packing Iron, you won't see any thongs on period holsters.
Always thought of Elmer (I love auto correct) Keith as somewhat of a cowboy. Remember him writing about his younger days in Montana, being taught about using six-guns from a Civil War veteran, running wild horses, herding sheep and having a cow ranch in Oregon. To me, that sounded pretty cowboy.

As far the Threepersons and Lawrence 120 Keith, agree they don’t cover much of the gun and found without the strap either didn’t hold a gun very well, at least the ones I had experience with. Always considered them a fast draw holster. Preferred a deeper holster that covered the trigger, rear sight, protected the hammer somewhat and had some type of strap or hold down when I was hunting. I have never actually been in a situation requiring the ‘emergency’ use of a handgun, whether in bear county out West or in Alaska, but I was confident even if hanging upside down from my boots my six shooter would be in my holster until I needed it.

One experience about holsters without straps or tie downs that always make me laugh a bit, is a story from a group at a club I belong to that went to shooting event. One gentleman had removed his gun belt and was in the process of hanging it up when his original 1851 took a dive from it’s holster into the port-a-potty he was about to use. He managed to fish the gun out (said he would have left if not an original) but not without quite the audience cheering him on. He left the event early.
 
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For a percussion revolver , a flap holster is the way to go.

In reality, how much time is that flap going to add to your draw? I'd feel that, much like old-school cops used to say when they were in an "unsnap situation" meaning they'd break the snap on the holster to allow quick access to a .38 revolver, that if a wearer of a flap holster felt any kind of need to need the gun they'd unfasten the flap to allow a normal draw.

Properly oiled and made water resistant , it will protect the gun from the elements. The flap holster is the best. I have a rig I made for my Uberti Stainless 1858 and it's a nice black western-style "River" gunbelt, a period-style pouch for a flask, balls, and capper and a Civil War flap holster. I feel it's completely historically correct.

I honestly feel the Slim Jim and later holsters were used maybe in part to get rid of the bulk of the flap, in part to look cool......who knows. I'd rather make sure my gun doesn't get wet or fall out.

Flap holsters continued in use in the military , I have a Bianchi OD Green nylon revolver holster for a 4" revolver made in recent years for military issue and it has a detachable nylon flap.
 
Always thought of Elmer (I love auto correct) Keith as somewhat of a cowboy. Remember him writing about his younger days in Montana, being taught about using six-guns from a Civil War veteran, running wild horses, herding sheep and having a cow ranch in Oregon. To me, that sounded pretty cowboy.

As far the Threepersons and Lawrence 120 Keith, agree they don’t cover much of the gun and found without the strap either didn’t hold a gun very well, at least the ones I had experience with. Always considered them a fast draw holster. Preferred a deeper holster that covered the trigger, rear sight, protected the hammer somewhat and had some type of strap or hold down when I was hunting. I have never actually been in a situation requiring the ‘emergency’ use of a handgun, whether in bear county out West or in Alaska, but I was confident even if hanging upside down from my boots my six shooter would be in my holster until I needed it.

One experience about holsters without straps or tie downs that always make me laugh a bit, is a story from a group at a club I belong to that went to shooting event. One gentleman had removed his gun belt and was in the process of hanging it up when his original 1851 took a dive from it’s holster into the port-a-potty he was about to use. He managed to fish the gun out (said he would have left if not an original) but not without quite the audience cheering him on. He left the event early.
That's a bad day......

I like straps and thumb breaks on my holsters, I feel the extra half second I'll need to draw it is worth not having it fall into a port o pot
 
Lots of folks' ideas come from moving pictures, not real life experience. Never been a cowboy, dove into rivers to escape a scalpin', nor charged a union line. But I had my share of tussles with unruly people who'd really liked to have had my pistol in their hand. Others I knew of had the misfortune of either being disarmed or temporarily lost their sidearm in similar scenarios. There are good reasons the thumb snap/strap was adopted and similarly, good reasons that morphed into today's retention holsters.

Many focus on firearms as the primary fighting tool in affrays, but in truth, it was often the saber/cutlas, bayonet, fist, shank, and billy club that settled disagreements in the end when things got personal. Dropping your pistol in a saloon brawl is awkward.
 
Perception is a funny thing. A lot of people think they need a strap or thong but do they really know? Not really. As I said, they did not have them historically because they did not need them. It's not even really necessary on the Threepersons either. Also as I said, if your sixgun is falling out of your holster, you need a new holster. But what do I know, I've only made about 200 of them.
 
Keith mentioned popping the snap and tucking the strap behind the belt if quick and important use was anticipated.

Yes, a well fitted holster should hold the gun when turned upside down, (and still release it when needed) but that doesnt mean the gun cant get pulled or dumped out in a variety of situations. I carried daily extensively in the hills and riding motorcycles, doing construction work at times, cutting firewood, for about 20 years, there were several times when falling, sliding on pavement on the bike, in thick brush, crawling around under a vehicle and other times that the gun would certainly have been dumped without a strap or half flap. Walking through catclaw, mesquite and other thick brush is hard on guns and holster leather as well as clothes. Its harder on them when they get dumped in the rocks and dirt.

I did lose one pistol riding motorcycles due to inadequate retention. The holster design wasnt very good, but many years of carrying with various holsters indicates that its quite possible to lose a gun even with a good holster if the gun isnt well secured. Some traditional holster types from the 1800s that Id be comfortable in walking around in easy conditions (and yes, the holster will hold the gun when turned upside down) wouldnt be a good choice for more active or challenging conditions. Pretty sure I wouldnt ride a motorcycle without good retention.
 
Perception is a funny thing. A lot of people think they need a strap or thong but do they really know? Not really. As I said, they did not have them historically because they did not need them. It's not even really necessary on the Threepersons either. Also as I said, if your sixgun is falling out of your holster, you need a new holster. But what do I know, I've only made about 200 of them.

But how much have you actually carried in outdoors activities?

I believe you are mistaken regarding the importance of a strap or other means of securing a pistol in active use.

I did like a half flap, I made and used several. Quicker than a full flap, but covered the action parts nicely from rain and snow.
 
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