Percussion rifle for round balls

Hello,

I'm looking to add a traditional cap rifle shooting round balls to my collection.

Requirements are adjustable sights (so I can hit a deer fatally to 100Y or so) and that's about it.

What is the ideal twist rate for patched round balls? Is 1:48 Ok or do I want at least 1:62?

Any thoughts on Traditions vs. Pedersoli?

You guys who shoot these things well, what kind of accuracy can you hold at 50, 100 yards?

Welcome specific recommendations. The site I usually shop at is sold out of almost everything.

I should have mentioned .50 cal only. I have a sh-it ton of .50 supplies so that is it.

Also I do not need magnum loads.

Perusing the forum now it looks like 1:48 is the consensus for best PRB accuracy.

Get a used Lyman Great Plains rifle.

The traditions percusons are accurate and work well, T.C.'s and Lymans are also good rifles. The Pedersolis are probably the best of the new rifles out there but cost more than the traditions. I personaly believe the Pedersolis are far better in Flint but for a cap gun the traditions work fine.

If to shoot roundballs save yourself some trouble and get the slower twist.

PaulF70 said:

I should have mentioned .50 cal only. I have a sh-it ton of .50 supplies so that is it.

Also I do not need magnum loads.

Perusing the forum now it looks like 1:48 is the consensus for best PRB accuracy.

Click to expand...

1:48” is a common “compromise” twist that can shoot both PRB and conicals decently. Supposedly the best twist for PRB is a slower twist, like a 1:60”, 1:66”, 1:72”, etc. Normal T/C’s, CVAs, Traditions, etc., tend to come in 1:48”. An older Lyman GPR (made by Investarms) is 1:60” or 1:66”. I have one in .50 and it shoots better than I can. You can also occasionally find a “roundball twist” barrel for a T/C, CVA, or Traditions, but they aren’t common. I love my Pedersolis, but they tend to come in 1:48” twist, unless you get a larger caliber. My .54 Blue Ridge is 1:60” or 1:66”.

PaulF70 said:

Hello,

I'm looking to add a traditional cap rifle shooting round balls to my collection.

Requirements are adjustable sights (so I can hit a deer fatally to 100Y or so) and that's about it.

What is the ideal twist rate for patched round balls? Is 1:48 Ok or do I want at least 1:62?

Any thoughts on Traditions vs. Pedersoli?

You guys who shoot these things well, what kind of accuracy can you hold at 50, 100 yards?

Welcome specific recommendations. The site I usually shop at is sold out of almost everything.

Click to expand...

The depth of rifling is the primary concern for best performance shooting a gun built for round ball. 1 in 48 with deep grooves will shoot a round ball as accurately as any other rifle while the gas cutting around a conical bullet in a rifle with deep grooves will not have great accuracy.

In a percussion lock rifle, the Traditions is as good as any for hunting. The barrels are made by a quality barrel maker in Spain and have been known for excellent accuracy. The Pedersoli rifles are also capable of good accuracy and reliability.

Accuracy is very much dependent on fit to your body. This makes selection of a rifle somewhat difficult if you can't actually hold it before buying it. You will have to make your decision on what the rifle looks like and how that appeals to you.

The Investarms rifles are pretty good although it is hard to find the Investarms rifles that have been imported by Lyman. Be careful of the twist rate as some come with fast twist conical bullet twist rates

Once an accurate load is developed, 50 yard groups off a rest can be 1" to 2". With sufficient practice the 1"groups can be approached. The groups open up at 100 yards

1/48 is the middle of the road manure twist. There are better twists for round ball. I use 1/60.
But then my barrel was made by Rice, swamped and stress relieved.

You dont get any of that with button rifled production barrels.

The 1 in 48 twist rate is hardly a bad twist rate. I am aware of several rifles used by shooters in my gun club that have the 1 in 48 twist in a cut rifled barrel. You best be prepared to place behind them.

I do agree with @Johnny Tremain that the button rifled barrels of just about any twist rate are less than optimal in the development of an accurate load. It can be done, but it's not easy.

1 in 48 is a fine twist for round ball. Slower twist will generally find its best accuracy with heavier charges. I used to think I needed a slow twist rifle but a decent 1 in 48 is accurate enough for deer to 100 yards or beyond.

You notice no one much is going to the accuracy issue? Generally, both flintlocks and percussion have the potential for the same accuracy...but reality is that most will shoot a percussion much more accuratly ( here it comes...) . Shooting from a rest at 50 yards....my Lyman GPR, percussion can shoot into a ragged hole if I am really with it, perfect light, etc. My Pedersoli GPR flint...within a couple inches, certaily good enough for a deers boiler maker...and when I am hunting, it is darn seldom I dont have a rest of some sort. At a hundred...much more difficult to hold a fine sight. Off hand...I will not attempt it, no matter how tempting a target. I am strictly a fifty yards and closer. An aperture sight helps alot of folks to tighten that group.

Lots of people grabbed TC, CVA and other rifles off their shelves, along with pre lubed patches and the correct round balls. Took them to the range and using the rather course factory sights tried their hand at muzzle loading. Results, for guys used to firing 10 or 20 rounds of .308 through a scope sighted bolt gun once a year, were often spotty and often abysmal. So, ”If you can get 5 MOA out of the old smoke pole you’re doing pretty good.” became almost gospel. Never mind that with proper sights, load development and shooting technique those TC’s, CVA’S and others can give a similarly sighted cartridge rifle a run for its money.

Seems I recall Hoyt at one time would freshen or cut the rifling in TC barrel. I don’t know if he still does but it would be worth asking if a TC is giving you trouble.

Jaegermeister said:

Get a used Lyman Great Plains rifle.

Click to expand...

A VINTAGE used Lyman Great Plains Rifle.

PaulF70 said:

I should have mentioned .50 cal only. I have a sh-it ton of .50 supplies so that is it.

Also I do not need magnum loads.

Perusing the forum now it looks like 1:48 is the consensus for best PRB accuracy.

Click to expand...

Btw @bubba.50 has a really nice little High Plains Sporter for sale in the classified section. You’d be doing me a favor if you bought that rifle… not sure I can stand the temptation much longer!

You couldn’t go wrong with a nice used Thompson Center Hawken, mine shoots better than my eyes, if you can see a hundred yards you can kill at a hundred yards if you work up the correct load for it.

Which of these two?

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1022662130?pid=901643#reviews
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1022017846?pid=691450
I am partial to Pedersoli as I love my Pedersoli SBS shotgun.

The Traditions has desirable slower twist and is also cheaper.

Can the Pedersoli really have fixed sights as the description indicates? Why would anyone make a rifle with open sights these days but make the rear sight fixed? That's just crazy.

Also considering this:

https://taylorsfirearms.com/long-guns/blackpowder-rifles/kentucky-percussion-rifle-50-35-9-16.html
I think Taylor's is just a retailer and doesn't make these guns, right? Who does?

(I have purchased Italian black powder revolvers that came in Taylor's boxes.)

I like the special offer on the Frontier rifle , 1 cent off .

PaulF70 said:

Hello,

I'm looking to add a traditional cap rifle shooting round balls to my collection.

Requirements are adjustable sights (so I can hit a deer fatally to 100Y or so) and that's about it.

What is the ideal twist rate for patched round balls? Is 1:48 Ok or do I want at least 1:62?

Any thoughts on Traditions vs. Pedersoli?

You guys who shoot these things well, what kind of accuracy can you hold at 50, 100 yards?

Welcome specific recommendations. The site I usually shop at is sold out of almost everything.

Click to expand...

In my opinion (which is worth what you paid for it) if you want patched round ball accuracy at 100 yards you need the slower twist of around 1:60.

In .50 caliber I have compared 1:48 twist to 1:60 twist. Both will shoot excellent round ball groups at 50 yards. At 75 yards the 1:48 groups begin to fall behind the 1:60. At 100 yards there is no question the 1:60 shoots better groups.

I've made the same comparison with .54 caliber rifles with 1:32 twist and 1:60 twist. At 50 yards both will shoot 5 shot groups that are one ragged hole in the target. At 75 yards the 1:32 begins to suffer, and at 100 yards there is no question the 1:60 does significantly better.

I had Hoyt deepen grooves in my TC .45 and that made a great improvement. My TC .50 shoots PA Conicals really great and suffers with roundballs, both these rifles are 1/48 twist. My TC PA Hunter rifles shoot RB and PA Conicals great and they have 1/60 twists. I believe that the 1/48 will do better with work but the slow twist is just so simple and easy. I still am learning about these complicated simple made firearms if I don't run out of money first.

PaulF70 said:

Hello,

I'm looking to add a traditional cap rifle shooting round balls to my collection.

Requirements are adjustable sights (so I can hit a deer fatally to 100Y or so) and that's about it.

What is the ideal twist rate for patched round balls? Is 1:48 Ok or do I want at least 1:62?

Any thoughts on Traditions vs. Pedersoli?

You guys who shoot these things well, what kind of accuracy can you hold at 50, 100 yards?

Welcome specific recommendations. The site I usually shop at is sold out of almost everything.

Click to expand...

I had GPR’s, in flint and percussion. They are heavy! If you hunt from a stand or hut fine, but carrying thru the woods it’ll get heavy. (Of course, I’m in my 70’s) Bought a Hatfield, it’s a tack driver at 100 yds and weighs less. Pedersoli makes the same rifle, it’s “Frontier”. It’s issue is the patent breech. Find and visit a local BP shoot. Go to the target shack and review the 100 yd scores. Search out the high scorers, they’ll share information.