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Hawken Rifles, What's All The Hoopla?!

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Hooked breech & barrel keys are the best thing ever invented for a ML IMHO. Cleaning is so much easier!
I like the look of the Hawkens, preferable with iron furniture. And I like the history of the gun.
But what I love about them is the hooked breach and barrel wedges. As Snake said, makes cleaning so much easier.
 
I don't think the Hawken mystique is hype. By all accounts, they were excellent rifles. Most of the early writers referred to them as "Hawkins" rifles, but as such they were specifically mentioned by George Brewerton, Bill Hamilton, George Ruxton, "Kootenai" Brown, Captain Marcy, and likely some others, but I have personally read what those chroniclers had to say.

I think the Hawken brothers, Jacob and Samuel, were very progressive for their time. If you take a real interest in the rifles that came out of their shop over the forty-odd years it was under their management, you can see how the rifles evolved. The changes might be subtle, but they are there, and they incorporated practical features. The hooked breech made thorough cleaning easy. Two wedges meant the barrel would stay in the stock if one wedge was lost. The long tang on top of the wrist with the long trigger bar below reinforced the part of the stock most vulnerable to breakage.

Another point is that the Hawken barrels, as far as I know, were always made of wrought iron. Bill Large referred to this as "dead iron," which would minimize vibration or "whip." We also know the bores were either tapered or choked, and I believe the muzzles were slightly relieved.... Easy to load, easy to seat the ball, and they were renowned for accuracy. The twist was 1:48", which today's shooters consider too fast for a round ball, but @Herb (see post #57) did a write-up of a big bore Hawken he built with a 1:48" twist, right here on this forum a year or two ago, which showed that twist gives up nothing in accuracy or energy. I believe a lot of today's builders try very hard to duplicate the "look" of the original Hawkens, but their choice of barrel is based on different criteria. I think it is significant that the S. Hawken replica offered by The Hawken Shop has a seven groove, 1:48" barrel. I've read of no complaints by people who shoot them.

I would agree with my buddy, @Rod Man , who indicated the "classic" Hawken rifles might be more associated with western expansion than with the pre-1840 Rocky Mountain fur trade. However, there was a lot going on in the western frontier after 1840, and muzzleloading rifles played a very prominent role. I think reenactors may be shortchanging themselves by establishing that pre-1840 date for the modern-day rendezvous reenactments. Bill Hamilton didn't even get onto the plains until 1842, yet he wrote of participation in beaver trapping expeditions and of trappers' rendezvous for years after that date in his book, My Sixty Years on the Plains. He also mentioned "Hawkins" rifles. The rendezvous he attended may have been less formal affairs than those earlier sponsored by the fur companies, but they surely happened.

When we get down to it, there were so few Hawken rifles made by the Civil War that there would not have been enough to have been used to justify the use of a Hawken by Civil War Reenactors. We of the Gemmer Club are aware of one Hawken rifle that came into Don Stith's (RIP) possession. The history is that it was ordered and received by a doctor stationed at Jefferson Barracks just prior to the start of the Civil War. When the war started, he left with his new rifle to his home (IIRC) South Carolina. It was never used. When Don received it, it was still in the cloth bag. He sold it and we no longer know where it is.
I can't account for the Civil War reenactors' bias against Hawken rifles, unless they are confusing the originals with the modern, lightweight, brass-mounted versions. I can see how those would be banned.

I appreciated @Grenadier1758 's comments about that doctor's Hawken. This is the rifle:

Hawken Article 1.jpg

...and a better look at the text:

Hawken Article 2.jpg

This rifle was written up, as you see it, in the August 1998 issue of Muzzle Blasts magazine, in Dr. George Shumway's column, "Longrifles of Note." The article was republished in Dr. Shumway's book, Longrifles of Note, Volume 2. The images above are from the book.

Dr. Shumway did a nice write-up, but I wondered if there was any more to the story, and I was also interested in the rifle's current whereabouts. I contacted a well-recognized Hawken expert (whom I will not name out of respect for his privacy) to ask about this. I received a really good response, which said, in part:

"...that rifle was owned by Don Stith when Shumway wrote his piece. Don said he had subsequently sold the rifle since the article [by Shumway] was published. He didn’t say who he sold it to—these guys tend to keep that info close to the vest.... I think [Don] Stith acquired the rifle from the family and felt pretty good about its provenance. I’m not sure how well Shumway remembered what Stith had told him about its history. Another acquaintance pointed out a discrepancy in Shumway’s telling of James Lawrence Jones’ trip to St. Louis and his time at the school he went to for his medical training. I found some enrollment info on the internet for the school and saw the discrepancy, but I’ve forgotten the details and don’t recall the website I went to. A search of the school name may turn it up because I think that’s how I found it before."

So, we don't know where the rifle is now. I can't say that I blame the current owner for keeping it quiet... An original J&S Hawken in like-new condition would be priceless. However, I hope it turns up again someday so Herb can get a look at it and document it more completely.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob
 
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I find @Ceannt's observation interesting. The Hawken Brothers and the shop built several styles of rifles other than the commonly envisioned large bored Plains Rifle. They built rifles for the local hunting and sporting needs as well as shotguns. Some of the smaller calibers did have brass hardware and looked like the shared the same brass trigger guard supplier, barrel maker, locks and triggers as the Dimick and Creamer smaller caliber rifles. I have always wondered if the T/C design was based on these smaller caliber Hawken Rifles and not one the Plains Rifles.

THE true Hawken Rocky Mountain rifle was and is a unique design. Alas, many commercial makers have labeled and marketed their cheapened versions as "Hawken" or Hawkins rifles. The most authentic commercially available Hawken looking rifles were offered by Browning and the Lyman Great Plains rifles.

Some may argue that Hawken (later Gemmer) made whatever the customer wanted. I know a guy who's had many real Hawken made guns that were not Rocky mountain rifles, though were true Hawken brand guns. Double barreled shotguns amongst them. The Hawken shop employed as many as 50 gunmakers and did a lively trade making whatever the customer wanted.

Later the Hawken heirs sold the shop and contents to Art Ressel who produced 100% authentic castings and parts from the original Hawken Shop in St Louis. I got my hands on a set of these parts in the latę0s and have the gun I built to this day.

One may examine all the copies, but will KNOE he's got something special in his hands whenever he has an authentic Hawken in his hands.
 
A true Hawken rifle or its exact copy (not the ones from T/C, CVA, Traditions, etc.) was the pinnacle of craftmanship by which all others were measured. It came about from years of crafting, changing and adjusting (adding improvements). They were well balanced, accurate, and hardy. By the time Gemmer bought the company, they had been pretty much dialed into the best they could be. Unfortunately, by then cartridge guns were becoming vogue. He held on until somewhere around 1915 by selling Sporting Goods and most likely gun repair.

That's my two cents worth!

Thanks!

Walt
 
Most men of the fur trade era were much shorter and weighed much less than todays shooters. Most true to original reproductions I’ve owned, shot, ect are heavy (10+ pounds), and very muzzle heavy (34 to 36 inch barrels). Now maybe a 20 to 30 something mountain man can handle that weight versus a 70 year old today, but for me they are hard to shoot offhand.

The only Hawken Style I have left is a Pedersoli Rocky Mountain. Being a 54 caliber it was muzzle heavy for me to hold up for extended periods. But then I said the heck with it and had Hoyt rebore it to 58 caliber. That shifted the balance point rearward just enough to to make it more pleasant to hold up.
if you meant that you are 70 today, happy birthday! if not, well just happy days!
 
I think the Hawken fellas would be pleased as punch if they were to know that their name became synonymous with half stock, hooked breached and keyed not pinned barrels. They made what the client wanted. They employed scores of smiths over the years and had for their day a very modern and up to date way of doing things.

I figure they would look at the various Hawkenesque rifles of our time and see some of their influence in them. Even if the gun you port around only looks sorta like a Hawken they pay respect to the name buy continuing the history. If it wasn't for Jeramiah Johnson how many of us would have never found muzzleloading? Not me. That movie outright changed my dad. It matured him and gave him a hobby that carried over to me. And the name of the rifle he HAD to have was Hawken. I don't remember the make and model of his first .50 caliber (likely a CVA is my guess, but my memory is a little fuzzy so many years since JJ came out and soon after pops got that rifle) but it wasn't good enough. Had to have a gun that looked like a Hawken. And when he got a TC Hawken he was tickled pink for weeks and every time he had a chance to show it off.

Hawken Rifle has taken on a life beyond the actual rifles made by the Hawken family, and their exact copies. And that can only be a good thing.
 
There's something about coil springs inside a lock that turns me off as well as screwed-in ramrod pipes when I see "Hawken" used to describe a firearm. Other stuff as well, but that's just me. Authentic reproductions are still uncommon, but what I like best.
PERHAPS, but I remember that RUGER went to coil springs and people whined until they realized how much better they were. Lasted virtually forever. If the screwed in pipes bother you then silver solder them. I prefer them because if I want to change anything, it is easy to take the "rail" off of the barrel.
 
I like the look of the Hawkens, preferable with iron furniture. And I like the history of the gun.
But what I love about them is the hooked breach and barrel wedges. As Snake said, makes cleaning so much easier.
Yes, Hawken Smaken, I learned to love the hooked breech and barrel wedges on my Lyman GPR. It made everything else i owned a pita to clean comparatively!!! If I ever had a rifle built it would have a hooked breech and barrel wedges whether it was a long rifle style or hawken. Many long rifles in the past used barrel wedges. Pins were just cheaper and less work for the builder. (IMHO) One of the reason I am building an Investarms GPR Flinter isn't just price, but it is because of the Hooked breech and barrel wedges.
 
a few reasons but mainly they are not HC/PC
but I suspect it is also a gatekeeping mechanism that keeps the 'riff raff' out, which I think is trash, not everyone can afford the real deal or a copy of a historic gun
I purchased a TC renagade for $300 and that is my introduction to muzzleloading. I love shooting it and would love to compete with it.
 
a few reasons but mainly they are not HC/PC
but I suspect it is also a gatekeeping mechanism that keeps the 'riff raff' out, which I think is trash, not everyone can afford the real deal or a copy of a historic gun
LOL, how f n sad is that. The sport is dying literally and some bunch of HC/PC curmudgeons would keep some one out because they did not spend enough money? WOW.
 
Now, now, my gun club is a bunch of curmudgeon's but we have never turned away a new shooter with a traditional muzzleloader. Some members have unmentionable muzzleloaders and those don't compete in our matches. Members compete and do quite well with some inexpensive rifles.

There are some events and competitions that are very much concerned with everything being historically correct and period correct. When interested newcomers show up at my reenacting unit, we do all we can to help them out. Of course, we are not overly into the stitch counting and yes, we have had the Pedersoli armed soldiers in the unit. We even had one member with an EIC Third Model. Often, we find that we have to apply the 15 foot rule since from 15 feet away the flaws can't be seen.
 
while a long rifle was a great looking rifle to me they were delicate. I could not see them holding up with hard use. being single shot with no bayonet provision dealing with multiple assailants at least the Hawken could be used as a club not the long rifle without breaking
 
The Hawken copies came on the market because of Jeremiah Johnson and other movies, a few Spaghetti Westerns have Hawkens in them....... plus also the Civil War Centennial in 1961 started an overall resurgence in interest in muzzleloaders and cap and ball revolvers. People became interested in "primitive" shooting.

The Kentucky Long Rifle also caught a resurgence during this same period , with various movies like The Revolution, Davy Crockett, etc

They are also popular now for the same reason they were back then, they work, they carry nicely in the field and they look good.

My Pedersoli Hawkens are absolute stunners, just beautiful rifles. Probably the best "Hawken" you're going top find in a production, out of the box rifle and if you want a nicer Hawken, you'll have to pay for a hand fitted custom rifle.
 
Yet, on the other side of the coin, they are NOT accepted in the Civil War reenacting community for some reason.

I've been to many a CW event that had big signs that say "No Hawken's", right as you come up to sign in at the registry tents... View attachment 160735

I find that sad… by the CW - Hawken was over. After Jake’s death (1849), I believe Sam went to Denver & back to St.Louis and sold out by 1860.
There were probably as many Hawken’s used by the south in the CW than Whitworth’s.
Thanks
 
The main reason is both "media advertising" such as the movie Jeremia Johnson. Combined with the fact that when people started getting into reproductions in the late 60 to 70's T>C>'s Hawken was the best quality for the money and was heavily advertised. If You don't think advertising matters , there are 14 peaks in Colorado high than Pike's Peak. How many can you name ?!
Don't forget, the Bicentennial came along in 1976 and many reenactment and rendezvous groups came along then.
 
THE true Hawken Rocky Mountain rifle was and is a unique design. Alas, many commercial makers have labeled and marketed their cheapened versions as "Hawken" or Hawkins rifles. The most authentic commercially available Hawken looking rifles were offered by Browning and the Lyman Great Plains rifles.

Some may argue that Hawken (later Gemmer) made whatever the customer wanted. I know a guy who's had many real Hawken made guns that were not Rocky mountain rifles, though were true Hawken brand guns. Double barreled shotguns amongst them. The Hawken shop employed as many as 50 gunmakers and did a lively trade making whatever the customer wanted.

Later the Hawken heirs sold the shop and contents to Art Ressel who produced 100% authentic castings and parts from the original Hawken Shop in St Louis. I got my hands on a set of these parts in the latę0s and have the gun I built to this day.

One may examine all the copies, but will KNOE he's got something special in his hands whenever he has an authentic Hawken in his hands.
I agree with you about the Jonathan Browning Mountain Rifle being a close replica of the original Hawken design. I worked for Browning as a sales rep. when the rifle was introduced in 1978, Browning's Centennial Year. The designers did extensive research and studied the Hawken style and made the Browning rifle really close to the originals. I still have the one I bought when they first came out SN PP0115 in 1978 and have shot it lots, and still a great shooter. I have to say though that as much as I really like this rifle, I am liking my Kibler Colonial flinter rifle even more.
 
I’ve got a Don Stith .54 Hawken rifle built by John Bergmann. I also have a Jim Chambers .58 Edward Marshall rifle built by John. I envision the Hawken as the rifle used by pioneers/adventurers in the westward expansion of the 1840’s, particularly by Kit Carson during his partnership with Fremont and his heroics in the Mexican-American war in California.

To me, the Marshall rifle and other flintlock firearms, such as those in “The Revenant,” are more appropriate western fur trapper firearms. Both type rifles have their distinct place in American history without having to envision a history that’s not really accurate.

As much as I enjoy the Hawken, it’s typically the Marshall flintlock that I take deer hunting, as it is light and balances so well, and because there is just so much more history with flintlocks.
 
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