Hawken Rifles, What's All The Hoopla?!

springfield art said:

It's just one of those things; like the Colt SAA or the 1911, or Steve McQueen's Mustang,

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You know, I think you hit the nail on the head. There are some creations that just hit 'the spot', if you know what I mean. They look 'right', and strike some hidden chord that resonates through us all. You can give all sorts of reasons why it is the icon it is, or its detractions, but in the end, you still haven't defined exactly WHY it's the icon it is. It filled a purpose, did well at it, and had the look of a balanced work of art - plus that extra something we can't put a finger on.

A big part has to be the spark that fired your daydreams as a youth.


Indians, buffalo, elk, Great Plains, and mountain men have had a magnetic pull on me since I could remember.

We didn't have much for TV. But the folks had the time life series on the the old west. I must have wore those books out.

So of course I'm going to lean towards plains rifles.



I think it just comes down to what's the most fun for the individual.

Snakebite said:

I started getting interested in muzzle loaders in the mid-1970s. At that time about the only production guns were T/C Hawkens and CVA Mountain Rifles. I was in the Army in Georgia and was about to get out and return to Texas. A new Soldier came into our unit from Alaska who was big into muzzleloaders, he had identical halfstock rifles except one was percussion and the other flint. For a newbie, I thought the T/C Hawken was it but he recommended I do a little more research on Hawken rifles and when I got home to Austin TX to see if anyone around there built rifles. I did and was introduced to a guy named Davy Boultinghouse who built guns and knives. I contracted with Davy to build me a "Hawken", accurate reproduction, .54cal, Ron Long lock and triggers and a Douglas XX barrel, for $500. And he gave me 9 months to pay it off. My interest was the fur trade and Texas Independence/early statehood which the Hawken fit into. Also, for me, there is something pretty cool about a Hawken rifle, the simpleness of it. The pistol in the picture was built on a 10" piece of the barrel, the rifle barrel was originally 44" which was too long for a halfstock so Davy cut off 10" and breeched it up for me.

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A rifle and pistol built from the same chunk of barrel. Doesn't get any more righteous than that.

I was more like Mr. @hanshi . I prefer those long graceful rifles. However, I did cut my teeth with a TC percussion and then went flint with the Lyman. The “Good” stuff was simply out of reach until the last 3 years. Last late April early May I attended the “Hawken Classic”, I shot a real one… Shortly after, I came across a Left handed “Selb” Hawken styled rifle and was fortunate to pick it up…so yeah, I drank the Coolaid. The “Selb” is a pretty decent rendition of a late 1840’s Hawken. Big and Porky and heavy! With 90 grains of 2 F the rifle let’s you know it’s there but the recoil is quite manageable. I shoot my flint the most, partly cuz I need the practice but mostly cuz it’s the most fun. It’s nice though seeing the “Hawken” in the corner. I got all the confidence in the world in it should I reach for it.

If you’re not sure …just don’t drink the coolaid and go shoot a flint gun. You’ll get over the itch after a bit…for a little while.

RM

It’s a .54

Dispatch said:

I've never owned or even fired one for that matter, but have noticed them around a lot and are extremely well-known in the black powder community, more so than any other model I've ever notice before.

What is it that makes it such a standard? View attachment 160713
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Well, you just added another reference thread on the internet to the never ending Hawken legacy.

Dispatch said:

Yet, on the other side of the coin, they are NOT accepted in the Civil War reenacting community for some reason.

I've been to many a CW event that had big signs that say "No Hawken's", right as you come up to sign in at the registry tents... View attachment 160735

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The Great Plains and Ithaca Hawken, I think now made by Perdersoli are close to originals in general.
The lighter TC types are compleat make believe
Soldiers during the war were mostly armed with military muskets. Early in the war some units were formed up with what ever they had. This effected the south more then the north. Arkansas Missouri Oklahoma saw mostly southern units armed with personal weapons. And the irregulars continues to be armed catch as catch can. Some may have had Hawkens??? But these would be so rare as to be unreasonable. East of the Mississippi it’s very unlikely any one ever had one. So it’s reasonable for WBTS units to ban them. Or for that matter except for irregulars or very early in the war any civilian arm.

I guess it is hard to explain until you shoulder one and let the smoke roll.....

Dispatch said:

Yet, on the other side of the coin, they are NOT accepted in the Civil War reenacting community for some reason.

I've been to many a CW event that had big signs that say "No Hawken's", right as you come up to sign in at the registry tents... View attachment 160735

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When we get down to it, there were so few Hawken rifles made by the Civil War that there would not have been enough to have been used to justify the use of a Hawken by Civil War Reenactors. We of the Gemmer Club are aware of one Hawken rifle that came into Don Stith's (RIP) possession. The history is that it was ordered and received by a doctor stationed at Jefferson Barracks just prior to the start of the Civil War. When the war started, he left with his new rifle to his home (IIRC) South Carolina. It was never used. When Don received it, it was still in the cloth bag. He sold it and we no longer know where it is.

Way over hyped. The fur trade was dominated by Henry and sons, Derringer, Tryon, Leman and others. All making flintlock long rifles at a fraction of what a Hawken cost. Even when some of those companies started making there version similar to a Hawken it was half the price. Hawkens weren't any better than what others made just more expensive. The hey day for the Hawkens was the 1840's. The repos they call Hawkens really are in name only they have seldom been a faithful reproduction.

Tsk-tsk, how dare anyone cast a negative eye toward an authentic Hawken. Hell for stout, accurate and powerful shooting irons they are, near ideal for their intended purpose. They are not particularly as graceful as a well crafted longrifle but I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder, it's really not much of an apples to apples comparison. I doubt I'll ever need to resort to forcing my muzzleloader into service as a club to whack an enemy or for all or nothing defense against Grizzer Bars' but if I had such needs an authentic Hawken might be tough to beat. I will say one thing, they are HEAVY.

The addiction I suffer exceeds the boundaries of muzzleloaders and when it comes to suppository shooting weapons many have argued the original M70 has it all and that may true but the standard is kind of heavy to pack. I prefer to hunt with lighter weight guns. I feel about the same way when it comes to the authentic Hawken style and usually have hunted with lighter rifles like my halfstock .54 Leman or a lightweight 36" .50 PA rifle. There are several contemporaries of the authentic Hawken, many mentioned in other posts here, but it sure seems the Hawken represents the baseline other plains type rifles are measured against.

over the years i have introduced more than a few new guys and gals to the sport/addiction of muzzleloading.
i have always tried to let them use both flinter's and percussions, to let them see which would tickle their fancy the most.
invariably they would gravitate to the "hawken" plains type rifles. only later in their experience and growth in the sport would they drift to long rifles. many never did, and many that did would be like me. I get glassy eyed about anything that belches smoke and lead.
the Hawkin style rifles are just handy, usually well balanced, and just plain more plentiful than long rifles. i have been buying and shooting muzzleloaders for close to 60 years and have never found a long rifle in a run of the mill gun shop. Hawkens type yes. more than my wife knows about!
today i build flint lock rifles. have never built a percussion locked gun. thats about to change. just bought 3 L&R manton locks at a price i couldn't pass. may not be correct for a "Hawken", but thats what i have planned for them.
of course i am old so my plans can change. fact i may forget my plans between breakfast and lunch!

Sorta like when you ask a biker about his Harley- if you have to ask you’ll never know…….

@William Sublette touched on it some. If you want to learn about the Makers and the Rifles they made do a little reading. I did it backwards, I bought the rifle then did the research. @Notchy Bob suggested books written by Charles Hanson and John Baird. This will put things in perspective for ya.

RM

Dispatch said:

Yet, on the other side of the coin, they are NOT accepted in the Civil War reenacting community for some reason.

I've been to many a CW event that had big signs that say "No Hawken's", right as you come up to sign in at the registry tents... View attachment 160735

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If there were any Hawkens used in the WBTS, it was with irregulars west of the Mississippi. Combat units in the eastern theater were armed with Springfields, Enfields, and whatever else they could scrape up from the armories and battlefields. To say there was a logistic nightmare would be quite true given the number of calibers and types in service. Adding a civilian rifle, rare east of the Mississippi, would not have happened.

The Appalachian said:

Don't care a thing about Hawkens, but I want that old anvil in the picture........

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It would set you back more than a Thompson Center Hawken. I have been trying to find one myself.

"What is it that makes it such a standard?"
Good press...or as it is called now, media presence. That and I think it just became a symbol for our early history.

I have only fired two Hawken style rifles. The .54 I have now and a high school buddy's .50 in the early 80's.
I do like them. However I liked my friend's little brothers rifle just as much... a long slim KY/PA style .45 flintlock.

The Hawken rifle as we know it is not a true fur trade gun. It came along well after the 1820-1835 time frame, which was the peak time for the fur trade. I have always called it a ”pioneering rifle” and did serve well as the west was opened up. First, the percussion gun was not practical when the closest source of caps was 1,500 miles east. A flint gun was never without some source of sparking material. I maintain flint guns were preferred in the far west long after percussion dominated the market in the east. A careful reading of Ruxton’s “Life In The Far West” will confirm flint guns well into the late ‘40’s. Granted, the Hawken shop was in business during the later fur trade but their output was minuscule compared to the number of trappers heading to the plains and Rockies. And remember, most of the men were poor and carried just about anything they could get their hands on.

I have owned a very close copy of a late slant breech .54 Hawken for 40 years and shot a number of mule deer with it. I never really liked it—it is ungainly, balances like a lead pipe, and kicks like a mule with the narrow crescent buttplate. It doesn’t even compare with some of my big bore earlier flint rifles for comfort and all around efficiency.

All the above is just my humble,opinion.

Snakebite, for $500.00 you got a mighty fine rifle

Dispatch said:

I've never owned or even fired one for that matter, but have noticed them around a lot and are extremely well-known in the black powder community, more so than any other model I've ever notice before.

What is it that makes it such a standard? View attachment 160713
View attachment 160715

Click to expand...

Has to do with the romance of the time period, Trappers, mountain men, the far West etc. Also, they are shorter, easier to transport, especially on horse back and usually heavy caliber which suited the larger game found in the mountins of the West etc. IMHO

Packrat said:

Snakebite, for $500.00 you got a mighty fine rifle

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that was a lot of money in the 70"s!