pan powder?

Black powder only in pan and barrel. Simple rule.

Thanks for all the great replies. So, I will take that as a NO. I would NEVER use smokeless powder as a main charge in a muzzle loader that's crazy talk. Iwas just curious about use as pan ignition. Which NO is the answer. I've got a lot of 2F I'll try the grinding it down to a finer granulation.
Thanks for all the good info.

Les Harris said:

Black powder only in pan and barrel. Simple rule.

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That's the gist of it in my opinion. There are many more incentives to not mess with smokeless in a flinter than there are good ones to encourage trying it.

Luke M said:

Thanks for all the great replies. So, I will take that as a NO. I would NEVER use smokeless powder as a main charge in a muzzle loader that's crazy talk. Iwas just curious about use as pan ignition. Which NO is the answer. I've got a lot of 2F I'll try the grinding it down to a finer granulation.
Thanks for all the good info.

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Questions are great! These fellas on here have saved me from breaking/misusing/creating some other flintlock related mistake more than once. This website is a vast reservoir of knowledge that we get to share in and benefit from. I have been wanting to try to turn some 3f into 4f for a while so let me know if you discover any tips when you start trying!

Magungo1066 said:

Questions are great! These fellas on here have saved me from breaking/misusing/creating some other flintlock related mistake more than once. This website is a vast reservoir of knowledge that we get to share in and benefit from. I have been wanting to try to turn some 3f into 4f for a while so let me know if you discover any tips when you start trying!

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I’m no expert but I been playing a bit with flintlocks last few years. I’m not good or sensitive enough to notice any difference in my 45 caliber rifles using 3F, 4F, or Null 0B. 2F yes though subtle; zero in my Bess or Charleville NO. I’ve primed the Bess also with 1F and 1.5F and that’s when things slow down. But that’s not in my mind a bad thing I have to remind my self a delay is coming. So I practice that and it’s made me better - no flinch and when I then prime same big smoothie with 3 or 4 my shots are better. So Id recommend practicing with 2 and 1.5 I think it made me a better shooter. Just shoot and adapt to what you have available. It’s all fun.

Joemolf said:

I’m no expert but I been playing a bit with flintlocks last few years. I’m not good or sensitive enough to notice any difference in my 45 caliber rifles using 3F, 4F, or Null 0B. 2F yes though subtle; zero in my Bess or Charleville NO. I’ve primed the Bess also with 1F and 1.5F and that’s when things slow down. But that’s not in my mind a bad thing I have to remind my self a delay is coming. So I practice that and it’s made me better - no flinch and when I then prime same big smoothie with 3 or 4 my shots are better. So Id recommend practicing with 2 and 1.5 I think it made me a better shooter. Just shoot and adapt to what you have available. It’s all fun.

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Oh I agree! I prime with 3f and even 2f all the time. It is more to just make a few pans worth merely because I have never used it. I have one gun that really only warmed up to me once I started putting 3f in the pan instead of 2f.

Luke M said:

Thanks for all the great replies. So, I will take that as a NO. I would NEVER use smokeless powder as a main charge in a muzzle loader that's crazy talk. Iwas just curious about use as pan ignition. Which NO is the answer. I've got a lot of 2F I'll try the grinding it down to a finer granulation.
Thanks for all the good info.

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Actually if you will just run your existing cans of powder through a 4F screen (Goex especially) the fines will probably be enough to keep you perpetually in pan powder.

Be safe and use the right stuff.

I thank you for this interesting discussion and reminder to us all about the safe storage and handling of all types of gun powder , smokeless or black. I need to get out my vacuum and clean up some ball powder around my loading bench that is hard to see and spreads out like ball bearings on the floor.
Discussion of these practical matters among us all at the various levels of experience is critical to safety and knowledge dissemination . One of the things I have noticed in my own experience is the gradual creep of complacency because of being around guns and ammunition continually. One tends to gradually loose the respect that should always always be present and maintained.
Posts like these remind us of the danger potential we should all be continually cognizant of.
I do have to say also that more than once good habits trained into me by my father as a boy saved the day if not my life when the brain was elsewhere .

the need for constant guard against complacency is so true. no matter what we are using the force of our hobby is lethal at worst and dangerous at best.
please excuse the use and reference to unmentionables. i do so in hopes of maybe helping others be more "Non complacent".
i haven't always been on the straight and narrow and for years shot that other kind of stuff.
I was annealing the necks of some suppositories by holding them close to the kitchen stove flame.
100 newly cleaned deprimed suppositories.
as my dear wife walked behind me the case i was heating emitted a ear shattering band and she jumped a couple feet in the air holding her left bicep.
one, one only case had a primer in it. i had randomly looked with the complacent knowledge i had just worked all 100 over.
that primer had exploded from the heat, exited the pocket, missing me, with enough velocity to penetrate a denim shirt sleeve, and embed itself through her bicep, a full 2.5 inches from entry.
broke my heart to have negligently harmed my girl. then i about passed out with the realization that it could have been over her heart or lungs.
Freak accident? yeah, but avoidable if i hadn't been complacent. had done it hundreds if not thousands of times over the years. should have checked each.
when we combine powder, ball, containment, and ignition we are responsible for the results. lets be able to brag about those results.
she still has the shrapnel in her arm. the bumps on my head are going down finally.

deerstalkert said:

the need for constant guard against complacency is so true. no matter what we are using the force of our hobby is lethal at worst and dangerous at best.
please excuse the use and reference to unmentionables. i do so in hopes of maybe helping others be more "Non complacent".
i haven't always been on the straight and narrow and for years shot that other kind of stuff.
I was annealing the necks of some suppositories by holding them close to the kitchen stove flame.
100 newly cleaned deprimed suppositories.
as my dear wife walked behind me the case i was heating emitted a ear shattering band and she jumped a couple feet in the air holding her left bicep.
one, one only case had a primer in it. i had randomly looked with the complacent knowledge i had just worked all 100 over.
that primer had exploded from the heat, exited the pocket, missing me, with enough velocity to penetrate a denim shirt sleeve, and embed itself through her bicep, a full 2.5 inches from entry.
broke my heart to have negligently harmed my girl. then i about passed out with the realization that it could have been over her heart or lungs.
Freak accident? yeah, but avoidable if i hadn't been complacent. had done it hundreds if not thousands of times over the years. should have checked each.
when we combine powder, ball, containment, and ignition we are responsible for the results. lets be able to brag about those results.
she still has the shrapnel in her arm. the bumps on my head are going down finally.

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Wow! That makes me shudder as well ! Come to think of it a primer pocket is just a short barreled gun. I bet a heated, unsuported percussion cap on a nipple might act very similarly although I can't think of a senerio where that might accidentally occur.

Luke M said:

Thanks for all the great replies. So, I will take that as a NO. I would NEVER use smokeless powder as a main charge in a muzzle loader that's crazy talk. Iwas just curious about use as pan ignition. Which NO is the answer. I've got a lot of 2F I'll try the grinding it down to a finer granulation.
Thanks for all the good info.

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You shouldn't need to grind it, 2F is fine in the pan.

I tried grinding it, moisture or something seemed to get at it and my ignition actually slowed over time.

This is 2F prime, skip to 1 minute in for the shot.

Magungo1066 said:

Oh I agree! I prime with 3f and even 2f all the time. It is more to just make a few pans worth merely because I have never used it. I have one gun that really only warmed up to me once I started putting 3f in the pan instead of 2f.

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If it’s an itch you have to scratch the safety try to roll some 2F out I guess with a rolling pin and wax paper small quantities. Before doing so I would try using the least amount of 2F in the pan to fire the gun. The hardest thing for me is I tend to put too much powder in the pan. Lol I bought a tresco magnum primer because it holds a lot of powder but at the same time dumps a lot with a press or two. Especially in my Brown Bess that has a ballistic pan that really only requires a couple grains. Heck I do love filling for the theatrics! but the delay is big as is ignition just like Holly Wood as they say. Reduce the prime reduce the delay. Prime powder will be available unfortunately the hazmat costs are astronomical. Easy for me to say I have 4 but I use 3F without thinking twice about it. 3F IMO is if your going to have one powder the all round powder with thought.

whatever i put in the bore goes in the pan,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I shoot 2F in barrel and pan. No problem.

Thats what I wanted to hear; I've got plenty of 3F. I wish there was more interest in the muzzle loading Arts here in the Western Slope of Colorado, or maybe I'm not looking hard enough, Were Red orientated over here but I feel everyone is more interested in center fire. But. when the primers are un-obtainable; guess what? Better to learn how to charge a pan like our forefathers. Face it. Our stupid currant admiration " Joe said" the 2ND amendment was built on black powder rifles not AR15'said that on TV , I was watching when he said that! now their making hard to get caps and BP. Not trying to make this "political" but they are making this tough for a gun that can be shipped legally to your door. Maybe this subject should be opened in a different Forum

My center fire primers and caps are on limited supply right now. That is why the interest in Flint Locks. And the original Question: if you could use Bullseye as a pan powder. Because I have a lot of it. NOT FOR THE MAIN CHARGE. Please nobody should try that. A duplex charge seems like a waste of time and effort to me. I grew up shooting BP. any Of you guys would look at my BP rifles and swear they have never been shot. Because their cleaned and lubed with BORE BUTTER Religiously

deerstalkert said:

the need for constant guard against complacency is so true. no matter what we are using the force of our hobby is lethal at worst and dangerous at best.
please excuse the use and reference to unmentionables. i do so in hopes of maybe helping others be more "Non complacent".
i haven't always been on the straight and narrow and for years shot that other kind of stuff.
I was annealing the necks of some suppositories by holding them close to the kitchen stove flame.
100 newly cleaned deprimed suppositories.
as my dear wife walked behind me the case i was heating emitted a ear shattering band and she jumped a couple feet in the air holding her left bicep.
one, one only case had a primer in it. i had randomly looked with the complacent knowledge i had just worked all 100 over.
that primer had exploded from the heat, exited the pocket, missing me, with enough velocity to penetrate a denim shirt sleeve, and embed itself through her bicep, a full 2.5 inches from entry.
broke my heart to have negligently harmed my girl. then i about passed out with the realization that it could have been over her heart or lungs.
Freak accident? yeah, but avoidable if i hadn't been complacent. had done it hundreds if not thousands of times over the years. should have checked each.
when we combine powder, ball, containment, and ignition we are responsible for the results. lets be able to brag about those results.
she still has the shrapnel in her arm. the bumps on my head are going down finally.

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I had a similar experience. I have a dixie cup on my loading bench for any castings that I cull for remelting. Unfortunately it was kept under a shelf on the bench. Long story short, I was feeding them into the pot singley and when there was only a few left I dumped the cup into the pot with a resultant explosion of spraying lead. A primer had fallen into the cup. My hand , face, shirt, and safety glasses, had varying degrees of splatter and my shorts were fouled.

Actually I do keep black and smokeless in the same reloading room, but they are each stored in a different area and in separate picnic coolers. I pay attention when I use any powder (most shooters do pay attention). I may load brass with black but its always on purpose. Although temporarily separated from my smokeless powders it scarcely matters as about all I've used for years are BP guns.

You mentioned, I believe, that you have plenty of 3F black; that means you already have both barrel AND pan powder. Any smokeless in the pan is certain to disappoint. Sub powders are also not recommended in flintlocks pans due to the "iffy" ignition. Any smokeless in the pan will fare even worse.

I wouldn’t use smokeless powder around a Muzzleloader simply due to the possibility of a brain cramp using it as a charge by accident. Also newbie using your stuff could easily make a mistake. Murphy’s law has a way of rearing it’s ugly head. If it didn’t we wouldn’t have to worry about dry ball, stuck balls, double charges etc.