For anyone considering an Indian manufactured Flintlock

Flint62Smoothie said:

Look at this test of a DOM barrel too! The Author fired and measured it, increasing 50-grns of 3Fg for each shot until he reached 400-grns. There was no measurable change, so he fired a final shot at 400-grns of 3Fg and 2 PRBs.

There will always be nay-sayers ...

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ohio ramrod said:

Not all India made guns are made by the same company. Thus different quality is likely.

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ohio ramrod said:

Not all India made guns are made by the same company. Thus different quality is likely.

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springfield art said:

Hey, thanks. In reading the information posted by Military History, the company that offers many types of India made firearms, they're very specific about frizzen hardening, etc. I believe the White Co. went out of business, (?) but they were/are very highly regarded. Anti-India-made snobishness is common, but I would not hesitate to use one. You're more likely to be harmed crossing the highway or driving in a big city! I've got an older (Bi-Cen era?) Bess from India that is stout as an oak. Glad you posted, Surfinator!

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Rock Home Isle said:

So what you’re saying is that they are not manufactured to be firearms…even though they are intended to be every bit of a functional firearm?

Hmm…Do you work for CNN?

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Surfinator58 said:

So let me get this straight you used in India made Gun Barrel from another musket built a gun sent it to the Birmingham proof house in London they proved it and approved of its ability to be called a firearm is that correct? Because there are those here who say it could never be a firearm just wondering

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Rudyard said:

I was around then & got to know Harr[son Rimer & Jerry Cunningham Jerry was a gem of whit we had fun at dusty Friendships shoots I bought a LOT of barrels & he gave me culls some marked ' junk ' So naturally I made them into matchlocks & early Flint or English lock carbines ect .One became. one I graved on the underside ' Finest selected Montana barrel company 5$ Reject ' & a pair of taper Oct 50 cal barrels made two pistol barrels & a matchlock' Petronel' the other a Scots Snaphance . The one marked Junk had a 1 in 16" pitch I hunted Goats with it but meant to bore it & rifle it but havnt to date . the stock nice hard maple ex Vern ? it had a shake & so short he blew it out but I got round that & the lock was a plate sans inards ex Jim Chambers He gave me for singing"" :Oh don't sell our Egar no more Violin's "" or maybe my famous' Juggling'act . I made it all ' English lock' internals adding the vestigial' Dog' to the cock . Nice cheek stock piece from one up for sale in the booth next door I fancied so Harrison held it up & I got a photo & drew round the outlines with detailes added on a bit of card Nothing Kibler about it I had fun but its a long grind in the dust & heat . or can be I was a 'booth hopper ' had fun but bought a lot of stuff & just posted it from the village none of todays paranoya re posting .. I only did one Western NMLRA R' vous on the Flathead I got from Spokane via Burlington Northern high line to Whitefish ' excellent service even if I did have explain my reasons to a Marshall & two Bulls as we slowed into the yards . I was no stranger to looking down gun barrels & the Marshall was very calm & polite . I met such fellows now & then but it was never a vulgar "freeze succer" just a calm & polite conversation . A regular Bo I met in the Spokane yards gebeerot gathered up, same story but he whittled about missing his ride. The Marshall says'' Hop back on" & he did . Curly G took me back to Ohio in his 'War Waggon '.With a bunch of the' Tommahawks' My I had far too much fun them days now ime old & stuffed Oh well never regretted it any .
Regards a rather rambling Rudyard

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Coinneach said:

But how does one differentiate between one or the other ?

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Flint62Smoothie said:

Look at this test of a DOM barrel too! The Author fired and measured it, increasing 50-grns of 3Fg for each shot until he reached 400-grns. There was no measurable change, so he fired a final shot at 400-grns of 3Fg and 2 PRBs.

There will always be nay-sayers ...

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springfield art said:

Hey, thanks. In reading the information posted by Military History, the company that offers many types of India made firearms, they're very specific about frizzen hardening, etc. I believe the White Co. went out of business, (?) but they were/are very highly regarded. Anti-India-made snobishness is common, but I would not hesitate to use one. You're more likely to be harmed crossing the highway or driving in a big city! I've got an older (Bi-Cen era?) Bess from India that is stout as an oak. Glad you posted, Surfinator!

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Rock Home Isle said:

I’ve gone back to another thread…and yeah…this seems to be your GOTO argument about India Made Firearms. And instead of reasonable argument, you like to parse words. There are legal reasons as to why these guns are manufactured without flash holes. It’s been explained before to you. You refuse to accept…

I don’t see that you offer much to this thread, other than a straw-man.

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Doc said:

In purchasing an Indian made gun you take your chances. Some are good, some are OK and many are bad. There’s absolutely no return or liability protection because they are sold as not meant to be shot. It’s completely buyers beware.
Doc,

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springfield art said:

Well, I'd talk to Veteran Arms, Middlesex, Military Heritage and see what they have to say about "not meant to be shot"; they're not decorative over-the-bar wallhangers. Whatever floats a fella's boat, though. Don't like 'em? Don't buy 'em.

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dave_person said:

Hi,
The important part of that report is the admonition to reenators to clean the firearms, particularly since no projectile or patch is used that scours the fowling during use. I work over reenactor guns frequently and the level of care is appalling. To some, the gun is a prop and nothing more. I was at the Battle of Bennington this year and saw musket stocks almost gray with weather damage because the finish was gone, locks and barrels corroded to the point the markings were illegible. Locks with frizzens so loose and feather springs so wimpy they fired only once in 5 or 6 tries. In the 18th century, those soldiers would have been flogged and their officers fined or demoted. I've encountered that solid gray stuff that was found in the exploded barrel and it may be due to using water to clean (which is fine) but doing the job poorly and incompletely such that residue is left in the barrel and it accretes because of the water. I've chipped that manure out of barrels and every one of those barrels was from a gun in which the owner never removed the barrel for cleaning. Many, perhaps most, reenactor don't seem to know much technically about their firelocks. After I work over their locks, they are amazed at how well they work. All I've done is bring the locks up to the standards they originally were and the reenactors are amazed because they never shot flintlocks in that condition before. They have no idea how well they should be working.

dave

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Grenadier1758 said:

In this particular case, @Rudyard was the manufacturer or at least the kit assembler. Since he was using it for his own purpose and the gun passed Birmingham proof testing, he was standing behind it based on his experience in building the gun.

We do the same here in the US when we build a kit gun from an assortment of parts, including installing a breech plug and drilling a touch hole. Let's not forget the cutting of dove tails for sights and underlugs. Do you think Investarms is going to take responsibility if you cut a dove tail too deep in the barrel and the barrel borsts due to an overload?

Is Jim Kibler's kit less of a gun because when he ships the kit in two parcels to avoid shipping issues on shipping and taxing complete firearms? Jim will stand behind his product, but probably not if you drill the screw holes too deep when installing a peep sight on the barrel of if you alter the barrel to install a different vent liner and cross thread the installation and blow out the new liner.

I do have two made in India muskets from Loyalist Arms. These were sold by Loyalist with the intent to be functional and safe firearms. I do feel the same unease as @maillemaker about guns sold to be functional firearms without being completed by drilling the touch hole. There the risk goes to the driller of the touch hole.

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