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Original or Replica ?

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The description uses very careful wording. So if a would be buyer wanted to return the pistol for a refund the seller could claim that he never said it was an "authentic" original. More or less the Sargent Shultz claim: "I know nothing". The over-clever wording does not give a comfortable feeling.
Another one of these pistols, with even less faux finish just sold two weeks ago on GB for $600.00. Amazing.

While there are unscrupulous dealers out there. It still also amazes me how many dealers in modern arms for 25+ years have so little knowledge of antique muzzle loading guns.

Mirouku (or whoever) must have made thousands of these pistols.

Rick

I said it and you said it. Many posters here are WAY more knowledgeable than many of the so-called expert dealers, but the fact remains that many innocents are still being taken in by something that has the semblance of being old but is, in fact, younger than me.

Some of them, like the dealer in this instance, are using weasel-wording to avoid admitting that it is a replica - enough to fool some poor sap eager to close a deal on what looks at first glance to be a real antique. Ten minutes of handling REAL guns of the period would disavow him forever of assuming that because it looks old, it IS old. Again, as many here would agree, just going through the action of cocking a genuine firearm has that hard-to-describe 'feel' that can only be replicated by the skill and artifice of a master of his craft, like our own Dave Person. I have a few genuinely old long arms, and a few modern versions of the same thing - the 'clicks' of the real thing are chalk and cheese by comparison with even the best of my newer guns.

There is also a whole heap of misinformation around, much of which could be dispelled in ten minutes by asking here, as many people, thankfully, do.
 
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yeah

first thought I saw it and I knew something was off
patina was almost right but something was red flagging my mind
sat and looked at the pics for a minute and I caught it

the engraving lines are way too sharp to be the real deal
the age on them tower pistols and their use wore down a lot of that
then it hit me that wood isn't right
spring under the frizzen doesn't look proper, too perfect

pistol was made late 60's to early 70's in Japan

worth maybe $225 on a good day

seller must know it isn't the real deal, he never outright says it, but highly implies it
It reeks of Japanese cherry wood.
 
Well, here's another one. What do you guys think ?

Rick

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/941858144
New or reconditioned stock. No doubt in my mind. Good job of blending finish- note the very dark areas around the mountings. I would have to handle it, but I am mostly sure the parts are original. The frozen looks like a replacement. Can't guarantee from the pictures if it's a complete original-to-the-pistol set of parts. I would pass.
Historical Armsmaker
 
New or reconditioned stock. No doubt in my mind. Good job of blending finish- note the very dark areas around the mountings. I would have to handle it, but I am mostly sure the parts are original. The frozen looks like a replacement. Can't guarantee from the pictures if it's a complete original-to-the-pistol set of parts. I would pass.
Historical Armsmaker
It says in the description that it has import markings. And SAR is a Turkish outfit that makes these pistols. Probably has no antique parts on it. Either the seller has no idea what he is selling or he's a scammer.
 
I didn't know (or remember) that SAR Turkey also got into the act with these pistols. Sort of their copy of the Japanese copy. LOL That would answer the question, as well as have added a few thousand more of these replica pistols into the market. Almost every week there is one or more of these pistols for sale at some auction or gun listing. Seems the current average pricing is running $200-250.00. I recently saw one in new condition fetch $300.00.
Back in the mid/late 1960's when these pistols were first introduced, if you wanted a military-style, smooth bore flint pistol, it was generally the only game in town. And it had a price point that meat the average budget. I purchased mine from Dixie in the late 1960's for $35.00 as I recall. Spent the optional extra $4.50 for the frizzen spring reduction and frizzen hardening.
Thanks again for the SAR Turkey information.

Rick
 
It says in the description that it has import markings. And SAR is a Turkish outfit that makes these pistols. Probably has no antique parts on it. Either the seller has no idea what he is selling or he's a scammer.
Sarsilmaz Firearms Corp. (often referred to as 'Sars' for short) is a privately owned small arms manufacturer based in Düzce, Turkey. The company was founded in 1880 in the Ottoman Empire, and is the largest small arms manufacturer in Turkey.
 
that is what I thought that -SAR, stood for. now I know the rest of the story.
 
Just yesterday, at an auction, a pair of obvious decorator only (even the barrels were castings) 1950/60's flint pistols sold for $700.00. Go figure ???

Rick
 
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