Shooting Damascus Barreled Smoothies

BigSkyRambler · Aug 5, 2022

This I am sure has been covered endlessly here, but here we go. As background, I have been shooting antique Damascus/twist barreled side by side cartridge shotguns for probably 20 years. (I will get to the muzzleloaders directly, so don't report me). This was an outgrowth of my cowboy action shooting and love of original guns, where possible, for that purpose. Being a stickler for style and period, I gravitated toward guns patented in 1870s. The 1878 Remington Whitmore was one. I could get a beater relatively cheap, cut down, tighten up and refinish. Damascus barrels often with moderate pitting. I kept having people tell me I was holding a bomb and that it was a known fact (which usually means it isn't) that they are unsafe. Shooting black powder, even stout loads, never loosened any of the 10 and 12 gauge guns I shot, and thet certainly never blew apart, even badly pitted ones. Just kept them clean and barrels still ring like bells.

So now I am regularly encountering fine to utilitarian muzzleloading shotguns. Even the ones with moderate bore pitting pass the visual and ring tests. I admit to not shooting most of them, but buy and sell them.

I am sure some of you are familiar with a study/test done many years ago in which the authors tried to get Damascus barreled guns to fail. The upshot, IIRC, was that even badly pitted rattletrap hardware store guns held up under punishment and barring a serious obstruction only failed if heavy smokeless shells/powder loads were introduced.

So after all of that, I wonder how many members of this group shoot antique Damascus barreled shotguns and what are your thoughts for those squeamish about doing so? Probably a can of worms, but what the heck. Pic of my 11 gauge English fowler for reference.

Rock Home Isle · Aug 5, 2022

BigSkyRambler said:
This I am sure has been covered endlessly here, but here we go. As background, I have been shooting antique Damascus/twist barreled side by side cartridge shotguns for probably 20 years. (I will get to the muzzleloaders directly, so don't report me). This was an outgrowth of my cowboy action shooting and love of original guns, where possible, for that purpose. Being a stickler for style and period, I gravitated toward guns patented in 1870s. The 1878 Remington Whitmore was one. I could get a beater relatively cheap, cut down, tighten up and refinish. Damascus barrels often with moderate pitting. I kept having people tell me I was holding a bomb and that it was a known fact (which usually means it isn't) that they are unsafe. Shooting black powder, even stout loads, never loosened any of the 10 and 12 gauge guns I shot, and thet certainly never blew apart, even badly pitted ones. Just kept them clean and barrels still ring like bells.

So now I am regularly encountering fine to utilitarian muzzleloading shotguns. Even the ones with moderate bore pitting pass the visual and ring tests. I admit to not shooting most of them, but buy and sell them.

I am sure some of you are familiar with a study/test done many years ago in which the authors tried to get Damascus barreled guns to fail. The upshot, IIRC, was that even badly pitted rattletrap hardware store guns held up under punishment and barring a serious obstruction only failed if heavy smokeless shells/powder loads were introduced.

So after all of that, I wonder how many members of this group shoot antique Damascus barreled shotguns and what are your thoughts for those squeamish about doing so? Probably a can of worms, but what the heck. Pic of my 11 gauge English fowler for reference.View attachment 153875

I hunted for years with an original Belgium made double barrel. Loved that gun

Lorne Johnson · Aug 5, 2022

I shoot original "Damascus" muzzleloaders. Cleaning is work, and after the initial flushing and brushing, I use a nylon bore brush in an electric drill to really clean it out, and follow that with Ballistoil on a large patch over the bore brush to really work that stuff into any crevasses or pits.
I do pay pretty careful attention to barrel wall thickness, and use light loads (3/4 to 1 ounce of shot and 65 to 72 grains FFg).

There is (or perhaps was) a poster on this board, TAC, in England who said that using plastic wads in original guns was known to result in ring bulges. I can't corroborate that myself, but TAC is a poster that I really respect. It was based on something real, though I don't know the specifics.

Feltwad · Aug 5, 2022

Here we go again Damascus barrels are dangerous this is often said by mostly two types ,those that have little knowledge of a Damascus barrel and those that are trying to sell you a cheap repro. A barrel that has a good wall thickness little bore pitting , no holes, or deep dents and not bent . can be made into good shooters using a reasonable standard load for each bore size Has most original muzzle barrels are black powder proof it is not wise to use plastic components such has plaswards because the heat from black powder melts the plastic onto the barrel walls and is one of the causes of barrel ripple ,it is wise to stick too card and felt wads
I have entered images on these forums of many muzzle loaders with Damascus barrels in bad condition which many would have been scraped and restored them back to the original condition
Feltwad

BigSkyRambler · Aug 5, 2022

Feltwad said:
Here we go again Damascus barrels are dangerous this is often said by mostly two types ,those that have little knowledge of a Damascus barrel and those that are trying to sell you a cheap repro. A barrel that has a good wall thickness little bore pitting , no holes, or deep dents and not bent . can be made into good shooters using a reasonable standard load for each bore size Has most original muzzle barrels are black powder proof it is not wise to use plastic components such has plaswards because the heat from black powder melts the plastic onto the barrel walls and is one of the causes of barrel ripple ,it is wise to stick too card and felt wads
I have entered images on these forums of many muzzle loaders with Damascus barrels in bad condition which many would have been scraped and restored them back to the original condition
Feltwad

I am not saying they are dangerous, just that taking my word as a seller might not be enough. There is a broad, deep well of knowledge here and on Double Gun to put folks' minds at ease. My old 10 gauge Webley had horrible bores, but knocked down the steel with authority.

ohio ramrod · Aug 5, 2022

My boy still shoots his Bavarian Leader shot gun with damacus barrels. It was made in the late 1800.s.

fleener · Aug 5, 2022

The one you show in your picture is simply not safe. Send it to me!

I shoot originals, both rifles and shotguns with normal loads. I am a stickler for good bores. If it is a shotgun especially take the bores into consideration. It only takes one week spot to fail.

I dont have any with what I would consider a badly pitted bore.

Fleener

11Bravo · Aug 6, 2022

I shoot most of the old ones and it matters little to me if the barrel was Damascus. Sure I would like a perfect mirror bore but since I never came across one yet I'll keep making smoke with what I have. I feel much safer with BP and the lower PSI it develops than smokeless.

SOLANCO · Mar 15, 2023

11Bravo said:
I shoot most of the old ones and it matters little to me if the barrel was Damascus. Sure I would like a perfect mirror bore but since I never came across one yet I'll keep making smoke with what I have. I feel much safer with BP and the lower PSI it develops than smokeless.

11Bravo you have the zacklys. As in you are zackly correct.

If you have a Damascus unmentionable the chambers will be no more than 2.5 inches. Do not, ever, even think of lengthening them. Aside from that being a crime against nature, your barrels were not proofed for longer cartridges.

Sam squanch · Mar 15, 2023

A REAL Damascus barrel in good shape should be ok. It’s the fake Damascus cheap ones that are dangerous. I only shoot original muskets with a thick barrel wall, I don’t trust a lighter sporting barrel, after 150 years or so of use and abuse, who knows…….I won’t risk it.

Comfortably_Numb · Mar 15, 2023

I have been shooting Damascus barreled shotguns for 43 years. My oldest skeet gun was made around 1815. Never had any problems.

OldSmoky1967 · Mar 15, 2023

BigSkyRambler said:
This I am sure has been covered endlessly here, but here we go. As background, I have been shooting antique Damascus/twist barreled side by side cartridge shotguns for probably 20 years. (I will get to the muzzleloaders directly, so don't report me). This was an outgrowth of my cowboy action shooting and love of original guns, where possible, for that purpose. Being a stickler for style and period, I gravitated toward guns patented in 1870s. The 1878 Remington Whitmore was one. I could get a beater relatively cheap, cut down, tighten up and refinish. Damascus barrels often with moderate pitting. I kept having people tell me I was holding a bomb and that it was a known fact (which usually means it isn't) that they are unsafe. Shooting black powder, even stout loads, never loosened any of the 10 and 12 gauge guns I shot, and thet certainly never blew apart, even badly pitted ones. Just kept them clean and barrels still ring like bells.

So now I am regularly encountering fine to utilitarian muzzleloading shotguns. Even the ones with moderate bore pitting pass the visual and ring tests. I admit to not shooting most of them, but buy and sell them.

I am sure some of you are familiar with a study/test done many years ago in which the authors tried to get Damascus barreled guns to fail. The upshot, IIRC, was that even badly pitted rattletrap hardware store guns held up under punishment and barring a serious obstruction only failed if heavy smokeless shells/powder loads were introduced.

So after all of that, I wonder how many members of this group shoot antique Damascus barreled shotguns and what are your thoughts for those squeamish about doing so? Probably a can of worms, but what the heck. Pic of my 11 gauge English fowler for reference.View attachment 153875

I have an 1820's Damascus SXS 20 guage that I shoot and love. I also have pistols by the same gunsmith and time period. I shoot them a lot.

sheriff john · Mar 15, 2023

Same here. One Belgian 12 gauge I've been shooting since the 1960's. Go-to load's always been 80 grains (by volume), felt wads, and same load of shot (by volume). Others as well.

There are some around that looked sketchy which I pass on b/c I don't own anything very long that I don't shoot and have never shot round balls from any side by side. 150 year old wood, not barrels, concerns me more.

bud in pa · Mar 15, 2023

Back when I had more hair, I read an article about a fellow in England that made a SxS with some Damascus barrels he obtained that were never used. They were 8 gauge. This fellow was a gunsmith par excellence! The pictures that I can vaguely remember were a work of art. This was a cartridge gun, the opening lever was pierced and there was engraving on the gun. Anyhow he put a truck tire on a body of water some distance from the shore. When he shot it, he flipped it over. It was proofed for smokeless powder. I guess if they were properly made they were plenty strong.

OldSmoky1967 · Mar 16, 2023

sheriff john said:
Same here. One Belgian 12 gauge I've been shooting since the 1960's. Go-to load's always been 80 grains (by volume), felt wads, and same load of shot (by volume). Others as well.

There are some around that looked sketchy which I pass on b/c I don't own anything very long that I don't shoot and have never shot round balls from any side by side. 150 year old wood, not barrels, concerns me more.

I never shoot round balls either, in vintage shotguns-as the walls are so thin. Like you said, it puts a lot of stress on the wood. Usually shotguns stocks are less robust, too. That's why they made rifles.

11Bravo · Mar 16, 2023

The wood has always been my concern and never would load a RB.

SOLANCO · Mar 16, 2023

11Bravo said:
The wood has always been my concern and never would load a RB.

If I want to shoot RB I'll use a rifle. If I want to shoot something flying I'll use pellets in a shotgun.
Not concerned about the wood so much. I have a number of vintage sxs unmentionables and have examined hundreds more. Do not recall ever seeing stock damage which would have been caused by shooting. Not even on guns which have been "shot loose".

dizzy 58 · Mar 31, 2023

BigSkyRambler said:
This I am sure has been covered endlessly here, but here we go. As background, I have been shooting antique Damascus/twist barreled side by side cartridge shotguns for probably 20 years. (I will get to the muzzleloaders directly, so don't report me). This was an outgrowth of my cowboy action shooting and love of original guns, where possible, for that purpose. Being a stickler for style and period, I gravitated toward guns patented in 1870s. The 1878 Remington Whitmore was one. I could get a beater relatively cheap, cut down, tighten up and refinish. Damascus barrels often with moderate pitting. I kept having people tell me I was holding a bomb and that it was a known fact (which usually means it isn't) that they are unsafe. Shooting black powder, even stout loads, never loosened any of the 10 and 12 gauge guns I shot, and thet certainly never blew apart, even badly pitted ones. Just kept them clean and barrels still ring like bells.

So now I am regularly encountering fine to utilitarian muzzleloading shotguns. Even the ones with moderate bore pitting pass the visual and ring tests. I admit to not shooting most of them, but buy and sell them.

I am sure some of you are familiar with a study/test done many years ago in which the authors tried to get Damascus barreled guns to fail. The upshot, IIRC, was that even badly pitted rattletrap hardware store guns held up under punishment and barring a serious obstruction only failed if heavy smokeless shells/powder loads were introduced.

So after all of that, I wonder how many members of this group shoot antique Damascus barreled shotguns and what are your thoughts for those squeamish about doing so? Probably a can of worms, but what the heck. Pic of my 11 gauge English fowler for reference.View attachment 153875

dizzy 58 · Mar 31, 2023

I have three side by sides two damascus and one repro fluid.
Really just starting out with shotguns
I have just got the Mortimer shooting and was Leary at first but have a good measure of confidence in it now . I have a procedure I follow with visual inspections in between progressive loads before I get body parts near the gun
The modern gun feels like a club in comparison to the Mortimer and I am sure it is destined to be sold the Mortimer just seams to naturally come to target. I was impressed with the pattern . I am going to go shoot some clay pigeons next week we will see how I feel after that

Gamechaser · Mar 31, 2023

I have a 1800s Richard's 12ga. Sxs and love it. Shoot a couple squirrels and rabbits a year with it

Shooting Damascus Barreled Smoothies

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