powder differences

I just recently got back into traditional muzzleloading and replies I received to a previous post mentioned 3f Goex, 3F Swiss, 4F, 2F, 1F, 777, etc. What is the main differences in these powders?

The difference in the varius "F" is the size of the grains FFFF being the finest, F being the largest. The Swiss and Goex refer to the manufacturer , 777 is a modern substitute for black powder.

The smaller the grains the faster the burn time, and higher breech pressures.
GO is now out of business
Swiss is a little hotter then GO, or some older powders like Curtis Harvey or Elephant. And for that matter Schutizen
In a .50 cal rifle a 70 grain charge of GO 3f would produce about the same velocity as an 80 grain charge of 2f, but the breech pressure would be lower
Swiss will do about the same velocity with a 60 grain charge.
I understand Swiss burns very clean compared to GO.
The old elephant burns real dirty.
I have never shot 777.
Pyrodex is a fake black powder that’s very bulky. One shoots the same volume as black, but it weighs about 3/4 so you get 25% more shots

If you are shooting real black, you only really need 2f and 3f to fool with unless you are shooting a flinter. Many flintlock shooters use 4f in the pan, although 3f works in a pinch.

Right now if you don't have powder, it will be try to make what you can find work. You will hear a lot of negative stuff about substitutes, but if that is all you can get, it beats not shooting at all by a mile.

Thanks for all the replies and the great info

brewer12345 said:

If you are shooting real black, you only really need 2f and 3f to fool with unless you are shooting a flinter. Many flintlock shooters use 4f in the pan, although 3f works in a pinch.

Right now if you don't have powder, it will be try to make what you can find work. You will hear a lot of negative stuff about substitutes, but if that is all you can get, it beats not shooting at all by a mile.

Click to expand...

I have a couple of pounds of Goex 3f and 1 of 777

Crowtalks, those two will work in your rifle but the 777 won't do well in a flintlock.

brewer12345 said:

If you are shooting real black, you only really need 2f and 3f to fool with unless you are shooting a flinter. Many flintlock shooters use 4f in the pan, although 3f works in a pinch.
~

Click to expand...

Have to say, I took the Charleville out last weekend for a few rounds and tried 2f in the pan. No difference to me compared to 4f. I believe many here run the same way.

I prime with what’s in the horn, 2 or 3.
Priming with a super fine powder is mostly a modern thing. I say mostly because there were matchlock shooter who used a fine priming powder, and since then it was never unknown.
Should you shoot a fake powder in a flint lock you need a ‘kicker’ of 5-10 grains black underneath your main charge and in the pan.

hanshi said:

Crowtalks, those two will work in your rifle but the 777 won't do well in a flintlock.

Click to expand...

Are you meaning that 777 isn't good in the pan, or in general with the flintlock?

In general. Ersatz powders are fine for inlines, but not so much for flintlocks!

D.Summers said:

In general. Ersatz powders are fine for inlines, but not so much for flintlocks!

Click to expand...

OK, that is very good to know! Thanks

Crowtalks said:

Are you meaning that 777 isn't good in the pan, or in general with the flintlock?

Click to expand...

It may not flash from the sparks. The ignition temp is about twice as much as black, so it is harder to get it to flash in the pan.
A flintlock doesn’t have a fuse through to the main charge. It depends on the hot gas from the flash in the pan to ignite the main charge. Again the higher temp bedded is harder to get it to kick off.
I shoot pyrodex in a rifle I shoot 60 grains 3f or 50 grains by volume of pyrodex with a ten grain black poured in first and then prime with black

tenngun said:

It may not flash from the sparks. The ignition temp is about twice as much as black, so it is harder to get it to flash in the pan.
A flintlock doesn’t have a fuse through to the main charge. It depends on the hot gas from the flash in the pan to ignite the main charge. Again the higher temp bedded is harder to get it to kick off.
I shoot pyrodex in a rifle I shoot 60 grains 3f or 50 grains by volume of pyrodex with a ten grain black poured in first and then prime with black

Click to expand...

Thanks for the explanation. I reckoned it might be something related to heat generated from the pan vs a cap...

tenngun said:

The smaller the grains the faster the burn time, and higher breech pressures.
GO is now out of business
Swiss is a little hotter then GO, or some older powders like Curtis Harvey or Elephant. And for that matter Schutizen
In a .50 cal rifle a 70 grain charge of GO 3f would produce about the same velocity as an 80 grain charge of 2f, but the breech pressure would be lower
Swiss will do about the same velocity with a 60 grain charge.
I understand Swiss burns very clean compared to GO.
The old elephant burns real dirty.
I have never shot 777.
Pyrodex is a fake black powder that’s very bulky. One shoots the same volume as black, but it weighs about 3/4 so you get 25% more shots

Click to expand...

Elephant is good in pyrotechnics. In a weapon is burns extremely dirty!

Meggadeath said:

Elephant is good in pyrotechnics. In a weapon is burns extremely dirty!

Click to expand...

I switched from Diamondback made by Elephant to Scheutzen this year because that’s what was available. So far I would say they are both dirty, but the fouling is much softer with Scheutzen…kind of a gooey black instead of the rather hard, flakey fouling of Diamondback. That said, I think I could get more shots without swabbing with Diamondback. It’s kind of hard to say for sure because it’s been so humid perhaps either one would be gooey.