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Non-Toxic Roundballs?

L & R
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I'm disappointed in the number of so-called outdoor writers pushing for lead bans or switching to non-toxic ammunition. It seems like every week one of them is publishing an article to that effect.

It's easy for them, considering sponsors or manufacturers provide them with firearms and ammunition to write about. It's not going to be so easy for the traditional muzzleloader. Sure, they manufacture non-toxic projectiles for the unmentionable rifles that just happen to load from the front, but they are not compatible with the twist of a historic design that is intended for a patched round ball.

They manufacture non-toxic ammunition for the most popular unmentionable calibers, but what about the guy who hunts with an antique, obscure, or historic caliber? He's out of luck, because the major manufacturers are simply not going to load them. You can't find many of them now, imagine trying to find non-toxic.

Just buy a new rifle then, right? Many can't even afford to fill their gas tank right now much less buy a new a rifle.

If you can even find one that is not selling for twice its value or more...
 
RanchRoper said:
The feds are going after everything else in Canada so lead must be on the list somewhere. However, I have sour skittles and poprocks to shoot if necessary. :)
Click to expand...
Hey what ever works, right? And such a sweet death
crying-with-laughter.gif
 
OldMaineWoodsman said:
I'm disappointed in the number of so-called outdoor writers pushing for lead bans or switching to non-toxic ammunition. It seems like every week one of them is publishing an article to that effect.

It's easy for them, considering sponsors or manufacturers provide them with firearms and ammunition to write about. It's not going to be so easy for the traditional muzzleloader. Sure, they manufacture non-toxic projectiles for the unmentionable rifles that just happen to load from the front, but they are not compatible with the twist of a historic design that is intended for a patched round ball.

They manufacture non-toxic ammunition for the most popular unmentionable calibers, but what about the guy who hunts with an antique, obscure, or historic caliber? He's out of luck, because the major manufacturers are simply not going to load them. You can't find many of them now, imagine trying to find non-toxic.

Just buy a new rifle then, right? Many can't even afford to fill their gas tank right now much less buy a new a rifle.

If you can even find one that is not selling for twice its value or more...
Click to expand...
No problem with non-toxic shot . Go to Roto Metals and purchase Bismuth shot in any size, it’s what I have to do for my Damascus doubles. For round balls purchase Bismuth ingots they mold as easy as lead. A bit more expensive than lead, but compared to your gun, license, gas, etc. it’s cheap.
Doc,
 
Doc said:
No problem with non-toxic shot . Go to Roto Metals and purchase Bismuth shot in any size, it’s what I have to do for my Damascus doubles. For round balls purchase Bismuth ingots they mold as easy as lead. A bit more expensive than lead, but compared to your gun, license, gas, etc. it’s cheap.
Doc,
Click to expand...
I understand all that. I just don't think we should be giving an inch to the anti-hunting groups.

They can preach (scare) all they want about the environment and the "save the eagles" nonsense. I see more eagles, hawks, buzzards, owls, ospreys, and four-legged predators now than I ever have in my lifetime.
 
I'm sorry to say this, but with these anti-gun nuts on the loose, they will eventually say that anything that kills is toxic!! Fact is these people are the ones that are toxic!
 
DOC, it's pretty hard to work and win, when corruption and fraud is how they play. We aren't sniveling and bitching like little girls and we resent that statement! I didn't put on a damned uniform and fight in '68 & '69 for this kind of Country, and I damned sure am not going to shut up and not voice what is wrong. Those that do nothing and are silent deserve what they get.
Now, that being said...I wish you a good day sir.
 
Mustang65 said:
DOC, it's pretty hard to work and win, when corruption and fraud is how they play. We aren't sniveling and bitching like little girls and we resent that statement! I didn't put on a damned uniform and fight in '68 & '69 for this kind of Country, and I damned sure am not going to shut up and not voice what is wrong. Those that do nothing and are silent deserve what they get.
Now, that being said...I wish you a good day sir.
Click to expand...
Perhaps a bad choice of words, but what we’re fighting is politics
Doc,
 
Major Dorman said:
Ok. Where can I learn more about this law?
Click to expand...
Look up any state game laws. They mirror USFW laws where applicable. Oh and by the way, the 'hunters digest' or whatever it's called in your state is not the actual law! Don't believe me ask a 'fish cop'.
 
Mustang65 said:
You won't find it anywhere.
Click to expand...

Mustang65 said:
Wrong. I just watched a moose, a seal, Beaver, ducks, geese, get shot from a boat, and also fowl over water being shot, as we do hunt geese and duck.. Where you come up with this stuff?
Click to expand...
Look up USFW game laws. Pretty simple. You are wrong. Non-tox shot from a smoothbore shotgun over water = legal. Any projectile from a rifled bore over water= illegal.
 
OldMaineWoodsman said:
I'm disappointed in the number of so-called outdoor writers pushing for lead bans or switching to non-toxic ammunition. It seems like every week one of them is publishing an article to that effect.

It's easy for them, considering sponsors or manufacturers provide them with firearms and ammunition to write about. It's not going to be so easy for the traditional muzzleloader. Sure, they manufacture non-toxic projectiles for the unmentionable rifles that just happen to load from the front, but they are not compatible with the twist of a historic design that is intended for a patched round ball.

They manufacture non-toxic ammunition for the most popular unmentionable calibers, but what about the guy who hunts with an antique, obscure, or historic caliber? He's out of luck, because the major manufacturers are simply not going to load them. You can't find many of them now, imagine trying to find non-toxic.

Just buy a new rifle then, right? Many can't even afford to fill their gas tank right now much less buy a new a rifle.

If you can even find one that is not selling for twice its value or more...
Click to expand...
I'm no writer. But that said I understand where you are coming from. In this entire thread I have repeatedly said I don't agree with non-tox projectiles. But what are you supposed to do when politicians with ulterior motives ban lead projectiles from use????? We as a very small niche community need to figure this out NOW before it's too late. We do not have the numbers to combat this. Sticking your head in the sand will not matter. If your state or hunt area bans lead then that is all there is to it.
 
Redlemur60 said:
Hows this for an idea .
Due to tyrany and just plain
Stupidity,and since the constitution has been thrown in the trash
I will no longer comply!
Whatever LUNACY They come up with next!
There aint no middle man between the absolute rights ģod gives me and me!
Click to expand...

I personally agree with you. I'm an as@H@^e enough to not give a hoot about a 'fish cop'. Most folks however have too much to loose AND that's understandable.
 
NorthFork said:
@centershot

When it comes to pass, try bismuth. Close to the same density of lead. A little bit harder than lead. Melts easily with home casting equipment. Can be more tiresome to cast but.... it is available at RotoMetals and will keep you in the game. And bismuth (95% bismuth, 5% tin) passes any and all non-toxic regs in all 50 states. I use bismuth for all my waterfowl hunting. Kills just like lead used to decades ago. Expensive, but great stuff. I understand you are likely taking about roundballs, not shot. Bismuth will cast a roundball in a mold just like lead. It's great problem is that it expands as it cools.
Click to expand...
I'm in CA and living on under a total lead ban for hunting. It's a pain and expensive. Lead free ammo of any kind hard to find and we're not allowed to order via the internet. I've got .54 and had a thought to use it deer hunting using a "lead free roundball made with something". It turned into quite the project, so much so that Rotometal sent me 3 pounds of their mix free of charge.

Suprisingingly, the expansion upon cooling wasn't the big detractor...it was the brittleness of the bismuth. It was accurate enough at normal powder/patch combinations but the issue is if you "dryball" a load, meaning you load a ball without powder. Thats a problem

I accidently did that and was unable to extract the ball at the range...the screw attachment just cratered the bismuth ball and wouldn't grip. I had to take it home and unbreech the barrel to get it out. Not something you'd be able to do in the field.

See attached document.
 

Attachments

  • Experiments with Bismuth.pdf
    299.9 KB · Views: 0
ltdann said:
I'm in CA and living on under a total lead ban for hunting. It's a pain and expensive. Lead free ammo of any kind hard to find and we're not allowed to order via the internet. I've got .54 and had a thought to use it deer hunting using a "lead free roundball made with something". It turned into quite the project, so much so that Rotometal sent me 3 pounds of their mix free of charge.

Suprisingingly, the expansion upon cooling wasn't the big detractor...it was the brittleness of the bismuth. It was accurate enough at normal powder/patch combinations but the issue is if you "dryball" a load, meaning you load a ball without powder. Thats a problem

I accidently did that and was unable to extract the ball at the range...the screw attachment just cratered the bismuth ball and wouldn't grip. I had to take it home and unbreech the barrel to get it out. Not something you'd be able to do in the field.

See attached document.
Click to expand...
i commend you on your reply to this thread. Your pdf is valuable info. This is what we need. Not 'ostriches' sticking their heads in the sand.
 

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