Rear sight on a smoothbore

Murphinator said:

I hope I dont ruffle any feathers by asking this but are any smoothbores specifically flintlocks produced with a rear sight ? I recently got a Pedersoli Brown Bess that was in somewhat poor condition in a lot of muzzleloaders that I bought from a deceased neighbors wife. I cant seem to hit the broadside of a barn.

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Get yourself a brass, corner brace from the local hardware store.



You cut it down and attach it using the tang screw. You file a groove in the upright portion to form your rear sight notch. This doesn't harm the musket, but should help you to get closer to the target.

I will send you a message about your Bess, as well,

LD

FlinterNick said:

I’m not sure if 1840 Springfields had rear sights its possible they did.

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They did not.

As far as I know, the only US-produced smoothbore muskets with rear sights installed were the 12,000 1816-1840 flintlocks converted to percussion by the firm of Hewes and Phillips under federal contract. They were only equipped with rear sights because they were supposed to be rifled. But, because of urgency, they were sent out before being rifled.

Hatman/2nd line said:

I looked at a file on English fowlers that Dave Person was doing a write up on, showed a grove filed in the tang area and some carried that on to the barrel a small amount. Check it out, it might be what you can use.

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I filed a groove on the tang of my fusil de chasse. It does help with accuracy when shooting round ball--it is fuzzy, like an unmentionable ghost ring sight, but there is enough awareness of the groove in my vision to consistently center the front sight

I have an original mid to late 1700`s RW trade gun relic. It has a finely made primitive rear sight. It also shoulders very well with sights immediately on target. Wish it was a shooter, and would so much like to make an exact copy of it for shooting. The stock might actually be a replacement due to its crude ( by todays standards) finishing, but it feels like it would do just fine without a rear sight as well

May not have any relevance, but my smoothie(about 1850's) has front and rear sights that help a lot with PRB, not so much with shot.

I had a period correct Harper's Ferry ladder sight soldered on to the barrel of my Pedersoli 1816 Springfield percussion conversion , and I can shoot surprisingly tight groups out to 100 yards.

However, I think most of what makes a smoothbore musket fun is the lack of usable sights. You use the barrel as your rear sight, and you just "learn".

In fact, I removed the rear sight from my ArmiSport CS Richmond and actually was doing better with it than when it had a rear sight. You just get the "feel" for it.

maillemaker said:

They did not.

As far as I know, the only US-produced smoothbore muskets with rear sights installed were the 12,000 1816-1840 flintlocks converted to percussion by the firm of Hewes and Phillips under federal contract. They were only equipped with rear sights because they were supposed to be rifled. But, because of urgency, they were sent out before being rifled.

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I inadvertently made a reproduction of one of these.

'Twould be silly not to install a rear sight. My next gun, I hope, will be a Pennsylvania style rifle with a smooth bore. And of course those rifles have rear sights. A smooth bore gun is more versatile than a rifled barrel and so much easier to clean.
I've killed lots of deer but never one so far away I couldn't have taken with a patched ball from a smooth bore.

Loyalist Dave said:

Get yourself a brass, corner brace from the local hardware store.

View attachment 148331

You cut it down and attach it using the tang screw. You file a groove in the upright portion to form your rear sight notch. This doesn't harm the musket, but should help you to get closer to the target.

I will send you a message about your Bess, as well,

LD

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This is a great idea. I just had another that would not alter a gun in any way, like the above. It ain't HC, but if one could somehow make a decent rear sight shape out of a rare earth magnet, it could be attach to the top of the barrel using indexing marks and almost certainly wouldn't move under recoil. The only downside is that it would need to be removed after shooting because softer magnets will slowly smash themselves if left attached to steel or iron.

Naturally I'm overthinking this whole problem, but I think it's a fun idea I may try to knock out on the bench for fun.

One potential problem is that magnets center and lock of the largest available surface area, so while one would center perfectly on a barrel flat of an octagon to round or octagon, center might not be where it need to be and would necessitate front sight only adjustments. Also, unless it it was concave it couldn't be used on round barrels.

Saw off the bottom and it'll work like a ghost ring and fit a round barrel.
https://www.sciplus.com/alnico-cyli...linder-magnet-68323-p&utm_campaign=Sale+items

Cutfingers said:

I always use the rear domed tang screw with great success.

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Me too, I index the slot so it lines up with the front sight. It is below the plane of the top of the barrel so it doesn't count as a 'sight' It's just a way to get everything lined up more easily.

Loyalist Dave said:

Get yourself a brass, corner brace from the local hardware store.

View attachment 148331

You cut it down and attach it using the tang screw. You file a groove in the upright portion to form your rear sight notch. This doesn't harm the musket, but should help you to get closer to the target.

I will send you a message about your Bess, as well,

LD

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Would this work for a sxs 12 gauge

Howie1968 said:

Would this work for a sxs 12 gauge

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Installation should work fine, but..., the problem is that with an SxS, the sighting axis is not above and parallel to either barrel's trajectory axis. So yes you might find that one of the two barrels would launch a round ball very near the point of aim if using one of these makeshift rear sights. The other barrel I should think would be too far "off" though. IF you adjusted where you placed the rear notch so that one barrel was very much on target, this would likely be even farther off for the other barrel... but you'd have to experiment.

I write this because I've seen some black powder SxS rifles with a rear sight for each barrel. On the other hand you are talking about shotguns, so that may make a significant difference.

It also might only work for one barrel to give you a satisfactory point of impact for a round ball, but work just fine when using both barrels for shot on turkeys, or squirrels, OR one barrel has a ball, and the other shot.

LD

flntlokr said:

Me too, I index the slot so it lines up with the front sight. It is below the plane of the top of the barrel so it doesn't count as a 'sight' It's just a way to get everything lined up more easily.

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Some shoots I have attended do not allow a rear sight so I do like flntlokr does above. I am shooting a custom Caywood that has had the barrel bent so it hits to my point of aim and it is very accurate, no rear sight needed.

Hunting only, different deal.

For a reproduction US musket, add a sight on to a spare rear band.

Murphinator said:

I hope I dont ruffle any feathers by asking this but are any smoothbores specifically flintlocks produced with a rear sight ? I recently got a Pedersoli Brown Bess that was in somewhat poor condition in a lot of muzzleloaders that I bought from a deceased neighbors wife. I cant seem to hit the broadside of a barn. I started with paper cartridges then patched round balls and I just cant hit that damn plate lol(@50yards). I think its because I cant get that bayonet lug in the same spot twice and to be honest the Bess just doesnt hold right for me it is a nice smoker though. My question is are there any smoothbores made today like a fowler or fusil that have a rear sight ? I would like to use one for deer hunting .62 caliber is enough for me I think as .75 eats into my lead supplies.

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Welcome to the world of smoothbore!

Not really sure where you are after reading this thread. If you're wanting a rear sight on your Bess and it isn't a historically important antique; then, just use the previous mentioned brass corner brace brazed to a barrel band and soldier ever onward with it.

If you don't want that, but need a smoothbore due to some dain bramaged hunting regulations then Traditions Zouave .58 can be had in smoothbore. May have to look for them but seen them listed 'somewhere' not too long ago. That would give you both a smoothbore, rear sights, and a smaller caliber which may be common to other muskets that you cast for.

Just my 2¢,
¶

wganz said:

Not really sure where you are after reading this thread. If you're wanting a rear sight on your Bess and it isn't a historically important antique; then, just use the previous mentioned brass corner brace brazed to a barrel band and soldier ever onward with it.

If you don't want that, but need a smoothbore due to some dain bramaged hunting regulations then Traditions Zouave .58 can be had in smoothbore. May have to look for them but seen them listed 'somewhere' not too long ago. That would give you both a smoothbore, rear sights, and a smaller caliber which may be common to other muskets that you cast for.

Just my 2¢,
¶

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I don’t see how a rear sight on a bess will make much of a difference, I’ve seen many Dutch and early dog lock muskets with a groove in the beech, this would be my choice of a rear sight.

FlinterNick said:

I don’t see how a rear sight on a Bess will make much of a difference, I’ve seen many Dutch and early dog lock muskets with a groove in the beech, this would be my choice of a rear sight.

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If that is what the OP wants, then that is what the OP wants.

Seen it too many times as an RN, if a patient believes that they have a certain color of green robe on then they can walk. Then forget trying to get them up until they get a flipping dark green robe with a tie on the LEFT side, they're just going to lay there & complain that you're a meanie + they need more pain meds. Aide shows up with a dark green robe that has a tie on the LEFT side, up & diddy bopping off down the hall they go with the Physical Therapist.

The mind is a wonderful thing at times.

wganz said:

If that is what the OP wants, then that is what the OP wants.

Seen it too many times as an RN, if a patient believes that they have a certain color of green robe on then they can walk. Then forget trying to get them up until they get a flipping dark green robe with a tie on the LEFT side, they're just going to lay there & complain that you're a meanie + they need more pain meds. Aide shows up with a dark green robe that has a tie on the LEFT side, up & diddy bopping off down the hall they go with the Physical Therapist.

The mind is a wonderful thing at times.

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I see, well if it helps the new land pattern bess M1810 light Musket had a rear sight on a .75 caliber smoothbore, I don’t know much about the barrel’s taper but that rear sight would be the only one I know of on a .75 caliber British musket.

http://therifleshoppe.com/catalog_pages/english_arms/(686_B).htm