What caliber is the flattest shooting?

ResearchPress said:

It was nothing but luck to take out mules at a mile. The grouping of the Whitworth rifle at that range would have been around 40ft.


Whitworth's preference was for a length of bullet that was 3 diameters of the bore, and didn't believe that there was a bullet that will shoot well that is of less than 2.5 diameters long. The design criteria Whitworth had was restriction to the service charge of 70 grains with a 530 grain weight bullet (the service charge and Minie bullet used in the P.53 Enfield) - it was nothing to do with round ball.


I was shooting my 1 in 48 twist original Enfield in a match at 600 yards a couple of weeks or so ago (and won! ). In the 1860s NRA(UK) rifle matches were held at similar distances for .577 Enfields, and out to 1000 yards for other rifles.

This is of course in relation to target shooting - I don't hunt, so will leave discussion of that subject to those that do.

David

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Thanks for correcting me, David!
Appreciate it.

I couldn't remember exactly what the data was - it's been a while since I've read about Mr Whitworth and the rifle. Thanks for filling in the details. So it was 3X the bore.

Yeah, hunting is a whole different game than targets! That's for sure!

M. De Land said:

….. … I use this as a comparison because it was precisely the same dynamic as went on at Creedmoor against the Irish in 1874 who were using muzzle loaders.. The projectiles are very similar and often paper patched.

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I find mid/long range muzzle loading and breech loading quite complimentary. I use similar bullets in each, and once it’s launched the bullet doesn’t care whether its from a m/l or b/l: the shooter has to make the same judgement calls on conditions.

David

ResearchPress said:

I find mid/long range muzzle loading and breech loading quite complimentary. I use similar bullets in each, and once it’s launched the bullet doesn’t care whether its from a m/l or b/l: the shooter has to make the same judgement calls on conditions.

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I agree with the above.
This topic has been thoroughly discussed, but since I’m having coffee this morning I’ll add my $.02 worth. I have hunting experience with PRB and extensive experience with breech loading BPCR out to 500 meters, so I feel I can share my personal opinions.
The OP ask about hunting out to 200 yards. It is clear that a PRB is not a good idea if one wants to cleanly harvest game at that distance. Retained energy is poor. The effects of wind, lighting, and and other factors make ethical shots difficult.
Trajectory is a function of time in the air plus drag. With BP, it is my opinion that differences between calibers is so slim that it is academic to discuss and not noticeable in the hunting field. If one wants to hunt and take longer shots, then I do believe that a long grease groove or PP bullet is superior due to the ballistic coefficient- as has been discussed. It will retain more energy and drift less than a PRB. The problems of wind, light, sight picture, etc still remain however.
So to the OP - if you’re still listening - It is my opinion that hunting shots with traditional ML at ranges of 200 yards are not realistic. If you insist and want to pursue the idea, then use a .45 caliber rifle with a 1:18 twist barrel, some sort of aperture rear sight, and go see what you can do. I recommend the .45 simply because there are so many bullet styles available to choose from. My guess is you’ll find 150 yards to be an absolute limit with perfect conditions and lots of experience. But that’s just my opinion.

SciAggie said:

I agree with the above.
This topic has been thoroughly discussed, but since I’m having coffee this morning I’ll add my $.02 worth. I have hunting experience with PRB and extensive experience with breech loading BPCR out to 500 meters, so I feel I can share my personal opinions.
The OP ask about hunting out to 200 yards. It is clear that a PRB is not a good idea if one wants to cleanly harvest game at that distance. Retained energy is poor. The effects of wind, lighting, and and other factors make ethical shots difficult.
Trajectory is a function of time in the air plus drag. With BP, it is my opinion that differences between calibers is so slim that it is academic to discuss and not noticeable in the hunting field. If one wants to hunt and take longer shots, then I do believe that a long grease groove or PP bullet is superior due to the ballistic coefficient- as has been discussed. It will retain more energy and drift less than a PRB. The problems of wind, light, sight picture, etc still remain however.
So to the OP - if you’re still listening - It is my opinion that hunting shots with traditional ML at ranges of 200 yards are not realistic. If you insist and want to pursue the idea, then use a .45 caliber rifle with a 1:18 twist barrel, some sort of aperture rear sight, and go see what you can do. I recommend the .45 simply because there are so many bullet styles available to choose from. My guess is you’ll find 150 yards to be an absolute limit with perfect conditions and lots of experience. But that’s just my opinion.

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Could not agree more, 200 yards off hand while doable is not in the average shooters capabilities, just look at the chicken scores in the average BPCRS match.

But IF you are going to do it follow SciAggie's advice regarding the firearm.

SciAggie said:

I agree with the above.
This topic has been thoroughly discussed, but since I’m having coffee this morning I’ll add my $.02 worth. I have hunting experience with PRB and extensive experience with breech loading BPCR out to 500 meters, so I feel I can share my personal opinions.
The OP ask about hunting out to 200 yards. It is clear that a PRB is not a good idea if one wants to cleanly harvest game at that distance. Retained energy is poor. The effects of wind, lighting, and and other factors make ethical shots difficult.
Trajectory is a function of time in the air plus drag. With BP, it is my opinion that differences between calibers is so slim that it is academic to discuss and not noticeable in the hunting field. If one wants to hunt and take longer shots, then I do believe that a long grease groove or PP bullet is superior due to the ballistic coefficient- as has been discussed. It will retain more energy and drift less than a PRB. The problems of wind, light, sight picture, etc still remain however.
So to the OP - if you’re still listening - It is my opinion that hunting shots with traditional ML at ranges of 200 yards are not realistic. If you insist and want to pursue the idea, then use a .45 caliber rifle with a 1:18 twist barrel, some sort of aperture rear sight, and go see what you can do. I recommend the .45 simply because there are so many bullet styles available to choose from. My guess is you’ll find 150 yards to be an absolute limit with perfect conditions and lots of experience. But that’s just my opinion.

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An accurate and well thought out response!