St. Louis Hawken recoil

Hello,
I have a St. Louis Hawken .54 calibre made in the early 80s. I have only shot it three times. 50grs. of 3f Swiss was my starting load. It kicks like a danged mule. I was using the just off the bi-cep hold. You know like everyone tells you to do. But those three shots were painful. They all touched on the paper, so I guess it was a pretty good load. Hit low right though at 40yds. This rifle weighs over 11lbs. The heavy recoil was something I wasn’t expecting. I’m I doing something wrong? 50 grains doesn’t seem a very high load. Also just patched roundball. Does anyone have any insight to make this a more comfortable rifle to shoot?

Thank you, Jon

At 50g of 3f Swiss, that should be a mild load. The bicep hold is for the very curved butstock. If you have the more flat one like a modern shotgun, put it on the shoulder as normal.

A pic of the gun might be helpful here

I didn’t try it with a normal hold.

JonBishop said:

Hello,
I have a St. Louis Hawken .54 calibre made in the early 80s. I have only shot it three times. 50grs. of 3f Swiss was my starting load. It kicks like a danged mule. I was using the just off the bi-cep hold. You know like everyone tells you to do. But those three shots were painful. They all touched on the paper, so I guess it was a pretty good load. Hit low right though at 40yds. This rifle weighs over 11lbs. The heavy recoil was something I wasn’t expecting. I’m I doing something wrong? 50 grains doesn’t seem a very high load. Also just patched roundball. Does anyone have any insight to make this a more comfortable rifle to shoot?

Thank you, Jon

Click to expand...

Post a photograph of how you are mounting the gun in your shoulder/upper arm. A 50 grain charge under a patched roundball in an 11 pound gun should feel like a party popper. You are doing something wrong.

I had problems with my Uberti Hawken kicking me about when shooting long range round ball (300m ) from prone position . I got a pair of thin Spenco shoe liners , sewed them together then doubled them over , made a pocket in the shoulder of my shooting shirt to hold the liner , it worked a treat an helped put off my shoulder reconstruction for 25 + years . I used to tape it to my bicep with Elastoplast (not duck tape) , as my shoulder started to wear out .

I agree with Dave. I would like to see a picture of the rifle. Id like to see the comb level compared to the line of the barrel. That shouldnt kick that bad.

JonBishop said:

Hello,
I have a St. Louis Hawken .54 calibre made in the early 80s. I have only shot it three times. 50grs. of 3f Swiss was my starting load. It kicks like a danged mule. I was using the just off the bi-cep hold. You know like everyone tells you to do. But those three shots were painful. They all touched on the paper, so I guess it was a pretty good load. Hit low right though at 40yds. This rifle weighs over 11lbs. The heavy recoil was something I wasn’t expecting. I’m I doing something wrong? 50 grains doesn’t seem a very high load. Also just patched roundball. Does anyone have any insight to make this a more comfortable rifle to shoot?

Thank you, Jon

Click to expand...

11 pound gun and 50 grains of powder…no matter what the calibre, should be a nice easy shooting mild load.

I would shoot it off the shoulder. The stock should fit just fine. Two basic things that I have seen happen that would make a difference. Make sure your powder scale is correct and the ball is seated all the way down. I know that is elementary, but I was shooting with a guy who was using an old powder flask that had a measured spout. He could not get his gun to hit the target with any kind of group. The spring was not closing the spout off all the way, so he was getting a different amount of powder every time. I have shot a ball that was not seated all the way one time and it kicked like a mule! So just a few thoughts.

In my Hawken, I shoot 50 grains and it doesn't kick that bad. The curvature in the buttplate on my Hawken is just about the same as yours. FWIW, I personally shoot "across the body" as opposed to say a modern gun with a flat butt. I honestly have no idea on why it kicks so much. Maybe because you didn't seat the ball all the way on the powder?

Hi granth,
I was shooting across body as well. I’m pretty positive I had the ball seated but who knows. The 3 shots I fired were all consistent in the recoil. They all hit paper and all the holes touched each other. I’ll try shooting it in my normal position and see how that goes. Thanks for the replies everyone.

Jon

I use fifty grains in my Hawken .58. It does not hurt me. Eat your spinach.

Are you absolutely sure your measure is set to 50 grains and not, like, 150 or something crazy? Stupid question I know but stranger things have happened. Something is definitely wrong somewhere. Get it figured out before something really bad happens. Are you normally overly sensitive to recoil? Some people are.

JonBishop said:

Hello,
I have a St. Louis Hawken .54 calibre made in the early 80s. I have only shot it three times. 50grs. of 3f Swiss was my starting load. It kicks like a danged mule. I was using the just off the bi-cep hold. You know like everyone tells you to do. But those three shots were painful. They all touched on the paper, so I guess it was a pretty good load. Hit low right though at 40yds. This rifle weighs over 11lbs. The heavy recoil was something I wasn’t expecting. I’m I doing something wrong? 50 grains doesn’t seem a very high load. Also just patched roundball. Does anyone have any insight to make this a more comfortable rifle to shoot?

Thank you, Jon

Click to expand...

3f is a (small) part of your problem. I suspect holding the butt loose on your shoulder is also. My routine load is 100 grns 2fg in my 9 lb Hawken. Only had one recoil "episode"...double-loaded and fired from the bench. OUCH! Got the attention of everyone on the firing line!

JonBishop said:

Hello,
I have a St. Louis Hawken .54 calibre made in the early 80s. I have only shot it three times. 50grs. of 3f Swiss was my starting load. It kicks like a danged mule. I was using the just off the bi-cep hold. You know like everyone tells you to do. But those three shots were painful. They all touched on the paper, so I guess it was a pretty good load. Hit low right though at 40yds. This rifle weighs over 11lbs. The heavy recoil was something I wasn’t expecting. I’m I doing something wrong? 50 grains doesn’t seem a very high load. Also just patched roundball. Does anyone have any insight to make this a more comfortable rifle to shoot?

Thank you, Jon

Click to expand...

50 grains of powder in a 54 Cal. rifle that weighs 11LB. ? It couldn't kick if you wanted it too? Check your figures again, something is wrong?

After reading the whole thread, I think like the majority of the intervening members, a load of 50grains of Swiss fffg (powder used here for large rifles or muskets) for a .54 cal., powder fully used in Europa for BB or other 1777. For us it is called "a load for young lady"…

If you hold your rifle correctly you cant feel anything, but, if you have a space between the stock and your shoulder or an overload you can feel something.

Just for info. That load is mine for one of my Pennsylvania rifle and for 50 yards (.45 cal) and only for target shooting. OK, there is a small loss of pressure through the vent, but this is not sufficient to change the recoil, especially with an 11 pound rifle and even with the difference of the bullets weight between the two calibers......

I incline really for a mistake with your load. If you have a reliable and controlled scale, check your real powder weight in fffg granulometry and compare with your loading dose (or your dose and your powder tubes if you are a target shooter) : I fear that the graduations of the loading dose are too pessimistic, dose out of order, or graduated/and adapted to another volume of another powder...

That's all I can think of when reading, as I can't observe you while shoulder mounting and shooting...

Sounds like a short trigger pull short stock.

Get a new measure. Make sure its swiss and not smokeless in a can o swiss? per others, that's a zero recoil load. My son used to shoot similar at 7 years old. Even a conical with 50 would be low recoil

azmntman said:

Get a new measure. Make sure its swiss and not smokeless in a can o swiss? per others, that's a zero recoil load. My son used to shoot similar at 7 years old. Even a conical with 50 would be low recoil

Click to expand...

very good point azmntan I didn't think of that.

As a kid I had a 12 gauge unmentionable that banged me up pretty good. Then I learned to pull the butt tight into my shoulder pocket and have not been hurt by recoil since.
With proper gun mount recoil should be at most a push, not a jolt.

Huh! My .54 J&S Hawken loves a 90-grain load of FFg and doesn't have an uncomfortable recoil. Nobody has asked that I've seen, but what round ball size and what patch/lube are you using? Is it hard to load --- ie: Do you have to hammer it down? An oversized ball or too-thick patch (or both) would make it kick more. You might also get a bore scope or take it to a `smith who has one and check for bulges and ringing in the bore. Something's hokey -- 50 grains of good powder and a good patch/lube combo on the appropriate sized round ball should NOT produce severe recoil.