Why is it necessary to swab the bore with a cannon but not a musket?

if it has anything to do with size of the gun, at what size does swabbing become necessary?

swabbing cools any embers from last shot. wouldn't want to chunk a charge of cannon size onto a hot coal. though someone sometime and somewhere discovered this the hard way!
many use different techniques to cool any embers in muskets. stand by for a lengthy discussion!

So artillery was normally loaded with bags or a bag of powder, or envelopes, and then the projectile. It's the bag or
the envelope leaving bits and pieces of smoldering embers that you don't get from a musket that is the problem. Not the length of the barrel.

Normally a single bag of premeasured powder was loaded, then the projectile, then the order was to "prick and prime", which opened the bag and powder was poured down the touch hole to the bag itself, which allowed the linstock with it's burning fuse to ignite the whole thing. After firing the remnants of the bag were "wormed" out, then the piece was "sponged" in case the worm missed anything.

You tear open a musket cartridge then dump down loose powder, followed by the ball and the empty cartridge. None of the musket cartridge is against the breech face so there is no need to worm and then to sponge the musket.

That's all there is to it.

OH with sufficiently rapid fire, a musket will cook off... but normally that's with blanks, not live rounds.

LD

there you have it.

deerstalkert said:

swabbing cools any embers from last shot. wouldn't want to chunk a charge of cannon size onto a hot coal. though someone sometime and somewhere discovered this the hard way!
many use different techniques to cool any embers in muskets. stand by for a lengthy discussion!

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Do people blow down a cannon bore? Maybe once?

wm

Certainly does not hurt, maybe even a good idea, to swab the bore of a muzzle loading shoulder weapon or hand gun - have you ever seen a blowback/flashback while someone was pouring powder down a musket barrel?

With regard to swabbing the bore of a cannon - I have a friend in Oklahoma who is missing most of his hand because the crew was in a hurry. He and several other artilleriests across the nation can share stories about "not swabbing the bore."

Woody Morgan said:

Do people blow down a cannon bore? Maybe once?

wm

Click to expand...

Well, maybe ONLY once...

deerstalkert said:

swabbing cools any embers from last shot. wouldn't want to chunk a charge of cannon size onto a hot coal. though someone sometime and somewhere discovered this the hard way!
many use different techniques to cool any embers in muskets. stand by for a lengthy discussion!

Click to expand...

we all remember CAPT. HOOK, and the accident at a collage in VT. his name is DAVID DESOTTI, I believe? he lost his hand. and he still reenacts. that is why it is done. and a musket it is unlikely & firing with a wet swabbed barrel.

There is also a proper technique as to stance and ram handling I believe. I cringe when I see folks sending patched balls home using the palm of the hand to push the rod.

Perhaps on our cannon events we demand sponging the barrels because of the large amount of spectators watching. Actually in a cannon there’s no exposed powder until after the prick. And yet after a rifle or pistol shot we pour loose powder down the barrels without ever swabing in a far faster sequence. My thoughts.
Doc,

Loyalist Dave said:

OH with sufficiently rapid fire, a musket will cook off... but normally that's with blanks, not live rounds.

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I have experienced a "cook-off" with a musket during live fire. And I witnessed another fellow have a "cook-off" during live fire.

mzzldr said:

Certainly does not hurt, maybe even a good idea, to swab the bore of a muzzle loading shoulder weapon or hand gun - have you ever seen a blowback/flashback while someone was pouring powder down a musket barrel?

With regard to swabbing the bore of a cannon - I have a friend in Oklahoma who is missing most of his hand because the crew was in a hurry. He and several other artilleriests across the nation can share stories about "not swabbing the bore."

Click to expand...

Further to Loyal Dave's post Most hand injuries were cause by wrong hold on the loading rod if a cannon pre-fired.The Orders from the Gunner were THUMBS UP, Away from the Muzzle.The hand is blown Open NOT Closed More than likley were the"Guesture" comes from. O.D.

ord sgt said:

I have experienced a "cook-off" with a musket during live fire. And I witnessed another fellow have a "cook-off" during live fire.

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Interesting in the hundreds of thousands of rounds shot with a patched round ball at Fort Shoots and Silhouette competitions. Basically shooting as fast as we can shoot accurately. Have never even heard of a so called “cook-off”. Thinking perhaps this happens because of a piece of paper left smoldering ? Which wouldn’t happen with a patched round ball.
Doc,

I saw a cook-off happen at a regional shoot. One of the S&S crew was in the middle of a timed event. It burned his hand but he continued to load and shoot until the stage was over.
Mine was with a greased minie and a measured powder charge.

Doc said:

Interesting in the hundreds of thousands of rounds shot with a patched round ball at Fort Shoots and Silhouette competitions. Basically shooting as fast as we can shoot accurately. Have never even heard of a so called “cook-off”. Thinking perhaps this happens because of a piece of paper left smoldering ? Which wouldn’t happen with a patched round ball.
Doc,

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You answered your own question. ☺

Patched round ball is different than loosely fitting paper cartridges in a musket speed drill.
No the paper does not remain, but the build up of ash will hold an ember... something like a patch being rammed down scrubs the barrel walls a bit. Not completely..., for as you know after enough patched rounds the barrel must be swabbed..., while with military ammo a musket was expected to fire as many as 24 rounds without any swabbing.

LD

Loyalist Dave said:

You answered your own question. ☺

Patched round ball is different than loosely fitting paper cartridges in a musket speed drill.
No the paper does not remain, but the build up of ash will hold an ember... something like a patch being rammed down scrubs the barrel walls a bit. Not completely..., for as you know after enough patched rounds the barrel must be swabbed..., while with military ammo a musket was expected to fire as many as 24 rounds without any swabbing.

LD

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I shoot in a relatively low humidity area so shooting a 30 round trail followed by a Fort Shoot of 25/30 no need to swab a barrel except to clean if I would desire to. That’s a great advantage in low humidity. But thank you for the info on musket loading.
Doc,

Doc said:

I shoot in a relatively low humidity area so shooting a 30 round trail followed by a Fort Shoot of 25/30 no need to swab a barrel except to clean if I would desire to. That’s a great advantage in low humidity. But thank you for the info on musket loading.
Doc,

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We're the opposite. There are summer days here that the humidity exceeds 100% due to "super saturation" from high temps.
Another example..., out West my brother in Albuquerque has a swamp cooler to cool his home. They cannot be used out here as the evaporation rate is very very low due to very high humidity. I measured my AC discharge one weekend last summer..., the condensed water was almost a quart per 12 hour period.

LD

I moved from Scottsdale, AZ with high temps and 10% humidity! To Aiken, SC with high temps and 95% humidity!. Go figure! In AZ the sweat would dry instantly on your skin leaving white marks from the salt. In SC you just have to get used to being wet, because you can change a completely soaked T shirt every 15 min if doing anything outside! Can't imagine the humidity in parts of Fla. LA or Miss?

some wet cannon swabs have a SHEAPARDS CROOK on the end of the wet swab, so if it cook's off the rammers hand & most of the hand & body is out of alignment with the bore!!

mzzldr said:

Certainly does not hurt, maybe even a good idea, to swab the bore of a muzzle loading shoulder weapon or hand gun - have you ever seen a blowback/flashback while someone was pouring powder down a musket barrel?

With regard to swabbing the bore of a cannon - I have a friend in Oklahoma who is missing most of his hand because the crew was in a hurry. He and several other artilleriests across the nation can share stories about "not swabbing the bore."

Click to expand...

I can be added to that list as of 11 months ago. I missed some remnants then wet swabbed before loading powder packet. It tore as using rammer to push in and ignited launching rammer out and breaking my thumb in 15 places. I'm lucky, I still have a usable thumb reduced to 1/3 of previous flexibility.