Oxidized Balls.

Whitworth said:

Lead oxide forms on lead exposed to the atmosphere. I have some 36s cast up in the early 80's that never touched the ground that are all white and flakey with lead oxide. They look great in a cased display, just don't touch them.

Click to expand...

Interestingly, I had the same thing happen to balls that were left for some time in my Pietta 1851 case that looks like this one. However, so far as I can see anywhere in chemistry literature, there is NO oxide of lead that is white. PbO is red or yellow (2 forms), PB3O4 is red, PbO2 is referred to as either brown or red/yellow, Pb203 is reddish yellow, Pb12O19 is dark brown or black. If people want to continue to refer to a white lead oxide, I'd just like them to tell me what the formula is for that and provide documentation for it. Can someone please provide the formula for these things that they are calling white lead oxides?

Apparently lead carbonate is typically made from lead acetate and carbon dioxide. So I wonder if the balls in the gun cases may have formed it from being in contact with acetate lining cloth. Just speculation. But I really would like someone to point me to a clear account and chemical structure for the white lead oxide they keep referring to. Just as a matter of accuracy?

sheriff john said:

turned plumb white

Click to expand...

I see what you did there!

Was it intentional?

doubleset said:

Interestingly, I had the same thing happen to balls that were left for some time in my Pietta 1851 case that looks like this one. However, so far as I can see anywhere in chemistry literature, there is NO oxide of lead that is white. PbO is red or yellow (2 forms), PB3O4 is red, PbO2 is referred to as either brown or red/yellow, Pb203 is reddish yellow, Pb12O19 is dark brown or black. If people want to continue to refer to a white lead oxide, I'd just like them to tell me what the formula is for that and provide documentation for it. Can someone please provide the formula for these things that they are calling white lead oxides?

Apparently lead carbonate is typically made from lead acetate and carbon dioxide. So I wonder if the balls in the gun cases may have formed it from being in contact with acetate lining cloth. Just speculation. But I really would like someone to point me to a clear account and chemical structure for the white lead oxide they keep referring to. Just as a matter of accuracy?

Click to expand...

this might help you:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_lead
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_carbonate

flntlokr said:

One of my friends powder coats his bullets and (round) balls. Different colours for different calibres. Keeps the oxides contained, and they are totally safe to handle. Looks like he is loading candy. He says that bullets so treated don't require lubrication, but I don't know if that would apply for bp loads.

Click to expand...

Yea Powder coated BP loads still need the lube.

Well , after all this round lead ball education , some folks , may have enough credits for a M/L ball diploma. Education can be a wonderful thing.

earlwb said:

this might help you:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_lead
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_carbonate

Click to expand...

How? That just makes my point. Lead carbonate is white. Lead carbonate is not an oxide. So what's your point with this?

after casting i seal them up with the food saver, they stay in this condition and lay flat and don't roll around.

nit wit said:

WD-40 is probably as dangerous as lead. My friends sister is an attorney for the company. I've handled lead for 50 years with no ill effect.
Nit Wit

Click to expand...

remember that GOD made lead & man made WD-40, just who do you trust???

Whitworth said:

Lead oxide forms on lead exposed to the atmosphere. Civil war bullets are covered with lead carbonate which forms when the lead is in the ground. Rain water mixes with organic material in the soil and forms a weak carbonic acid which reacts with the lead turning it white. They come out of the ground with a white coating that is very strongly chemically attached. That white doesn't come off easily, you can't wash it off, WD 40 does nothing to it and when handling them nothing flakes off. Artist white pigment lead was produced many ways but all involved an acid treatment. I have some 36s cast up in the early 80's that never touched the ground that are all white and flakey with lead oxide. They look great in a cased display, just don't touch them. View attachment 132008

Click to expand...

or lick your fingers after handling them!!!!

doubleset said:

How? That just makes my point. Lead carbonate is white. Lead carbonate is not an oxide. So what's your point with this?

Click to expand...

what is this QUANTUM PHISICS???

toot said:

remember that GOD made lead & man made WD-40, just who do you trust???

Click to expand...

nobody, not even myself anymore.

toot said:

what is this QUANTUM PHISICS???

Click to expand...

No -- at least if I take you to mean "physics". At this level it's elementary chemistry -- about at the level of knowing the difference between a football and a softball ( and in case you're not familiar with those too). Or confusing a flintlock with a caplock -- and look at how excited and irritated people get about that.

I've certainly never been much good at chemistry, making it through a year of it in high school and another year in college. So I don't mind people being ignorant of it. But then they shouldn't keep repeating things about it that are just false -- and which might matter in terms of how you approach certain difficulties involving that chemistry and precisely what properties a particular compound has, how to clean it off something, how to stop it from forming, and how to avoid being poisoned by it. This whole issue about the coating on lead balls is all about the chemistry, and has been from the start. So maybe it's important to at least get the basic chemistry right?

Shoot more, worry less about your balls turning white.

BillRob said:

I can't even guess how many lead split shot I bit to tighten-up on a fishing line as a kid. Well - - maybe that explains some things...

Click to expand...

Me too…

I grew up with a father who built boats and we fished A LOT, and a Lot of it was ocean fishing. Our tackle box was Full of white crusted lead weights. Like another had state, I have used my teeth on so many split shot it's a wonder I still have any teeth. My father had a Mound of lead bars out back we would melt for making our own sinkers. Oh, and not to mention spitting out the lead shot after rabbit and squirrel hunting.

My father is now in his mid 80s and I at 60, neither of you, is, them have ate, had, did any tissues, issues or artifacts, effects of any society, variety.

However, had we worn our NBC suites with two pair of gloves and three pair of underwear then we might not have died so often.

Oh, and Masks, be sure to wear two or three Masks!

Mad L said:

My father is now in his mid 80s and I at 60, neither of you, is, them have ate, had, did any tissues, issues or artifacts, effects of any society, variety.

However, had we worn our NBC suites with two pair of gloves and three pair of underwear then we might not have died so often.

Click to expand...

Puttin' the "Mad" in @Mad L , I see?

Do you make hats?

Joemolf said:

When I lived in Florida The Sebastian Shooting Range had it or something similar in the mens room for washing. That was a beautiful range; state ran too!

Click to expand...

I agree. When I lived in Palm Bay I was a member at the Sebastian Range. I shot there often.

We can all be a little (very little) cautious when handling lead, then again we can also wear helmets while driving around.

windini said:

Puttin' the "Mad" in @Mad L , I see?

Do you make hats?

Click to expand...

Why actually I do! I have knitted several woolen hats, and using double end wooden needles at that!

Having read these post, I am sure that I have saved myself a lot of possible issues in regards to handling lead ammunition and equipment that has been exposed to the elements for to long. I do believe that I am just going to dump about 5 pounds of so of lead balls into my polishing pot and let them run for a little while. Then I guess it will be time to sort them out and decide how to treat and store them, several different courses have been suggested and I will likely try several with a few of each type and size until I decide which I like best. As a new BP shooter, thank you to all for the wonderful discussions and advice I have found here.
Stay safe and let me know if you want to have coffee someday in the Nampa Idaho area. I am reachable at "[email protected]"
Larry Vaughn, Nampa Idaho.