Kelly sights

Howdy. Hope everyone is well.
Has anyone any experience or knowledge about Kelly tang sights? They sure look the business!

Being a BPCR shooter as well as muzzleloader, I have seen Kelly and yes, they are very nice as are MVA. But if pretty is not on the agenda but functional and accurate are the priority, check out Lee Shaver

Thank you for your reply. Lee Shaver sights are proven quality and I may go that way.

Widows Son said:

Thank you for your reply. Lee Shaver sights are proven quality and I may go that way.

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I have Shavers sights on my 1869 Rolling Block and am completely satisfied with them. Kelly, MVA and Shaver are all quality Soule sights. The only difference is the level finish and that's the real difference. Kelly would look out of place on my Roller with it's level of "patina".

I’m looking for sights for my Whitworth. Soule sights post date the muzzle loading era by 25 years. I was hoping to get the Goodwin style sight being more period appropriate. However, soule sights are perfectly acceptable for competition and not as expensive.

Widows Son said:

I’m looking for sights for my Whitworth. Soule sights post date the muzzle loading era by 25 years. I was hoping to get the Goodwin style sight being more period appropriate. ...

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J.W. Soule's wind gage sight wasn't patented until 1889 (in the USA) so as you rightly note post dates Whitworth by a long way, and also many of the breech loaders that it is popularly used on today.

The short lived Goodwin sight was originally an orthoptic device in the mid-1860s and intended to be used in conjunction with the foresight and the barrel mounted rear sight. Once the barrel sight was set for elevation and the foresight for wind, then the eye-piece of the Goodwin sight was wound into the required position. I have an original and there are no graduation markings on it. About the only thing today's Goodwin sights have in common with the original is the off-set staff and horizontal bar to carry the eye-piece.

Muzzle and breech loading rifle sights used for long range shooting and of the period 1860-1880 were generally elevation adjustment on the rearsight and windage on the foresight.

David

Thank you, David, for your knowledge. When I read about the orthoptic sight on your superior website I did perceive that it was a ‘triple-sight’ system. Our ancestors were damned resourceful and intelligent people!

I'm just offering information to aid choice. The Soule sight post dates the Whitworth, while 'modern' Goodwin sights aren't really representative of the original. If you want a sight with elevation and windage, and aren't constrained through personal choice or competition rules whether things are 'in the spirit of the original', then either will work well. If you want something 'of the period' then a vernier adjustable aperture sight with elevation only and a foresight with windage adjustment would be the way to go. Some also like the Goodwin bar foresight, essentially a horizontal plate with a slot cut in it - the light passing through it effectively appearing as a post.



The sight can be adjusted for windage, then fine tuned for changing conditions by aiming off a little, the horizontal bar helping maintain elevation.

David

I am familiar with Kelly sights, however never owned any. They are known to be of good quality.

I have MVA sights on quite a few rifles. I like MVA, good quality and they have never let me down.
I love the Soule sights. However as David pointed out, not very accurate for certain rifles.

I have an original Rigby long range rifle. It needed sights when I got it. I would of loved to put a MVA Soule on it. However, it would of simply been wrong to do that to that rifle. I had a rear sight made that is correct for the rifle. With windage on the front sight. I had a good friend of mine tell me when I bought that rifle that he would punch me in the mouth if I put a Soule sight on it and he meant it.

Windage on the front without a doubt handicaps you and I believe cost me some points in matches.

I am too lazy to crank on my windage with it being on the muzzle when I am in the prone position if conditions changes. Easy to do when you are shooting a Soule sight. Much harder when it is on the front sight. So I just use Kentucky windage if conditions change after I lay down.

If I was shooting a replica and not overly concerned about being 100% accurate in the historically correctness with the sights, I would not hesitate to put Soule rear sights and I do on mine.

Fleener

Many thanks, David and Fleener, for your advice.
Historical accuracy is a prime consideration for me, but practicality and affordability are still relevant.

Baldwin is an excellent choice as well. I run a Steve baldwin long range soule for BPCR silhouette and I have been more than satisfied. Really, any of the tang sights from the well known big makers are going to serve the purpose well.

Kelly, Baldwin and MVA are all very good sights, no experience with Shaver. I used MVA on my better rifles as I figured I had so much money in the rifle the sights in proportion were relatively inexpensive.
On a cheaper rifle I had (Uberti Highwall) I went with the cheaper Red River sights from Buffalo Arms. They work very well and are a less expensive alternative for a beginner or a loaner rifle, if your not sure if your going to stay interested in using them long term they may work for you.

Thanks mate, I hadn’t considered Red River.

fleener said:

Windage on the front without a doubt handicaps you and I believe cost me some points in matches.

Fleener

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This is interesting. Can you explain why it would be a handicap? Is it because you’re on the clock?

You are in the prone position and in the sling. You have your spotting scope on the ground setup to keep track of the mirage. You might also even have your wrist rest setup. You are getting ready to take the shot, and there is a wind change. What do you do? With windage on the rear sight it is right there and it is easy to crank in some windage on the sight. It can be done without getting out of the sling.

When the windage is on the front sight and you are in the sling, you will have get out of the sling, slide the whole rifle back so that you can see the front sight. Now the muzzle is near your face, oh and dont forget to take the cap off the nipple so you dont accidently when the Darwin award. Also as you can see in the picture of my front sight to be able to see the sight markings you have to be looking down at the muzzle from the front. The windage markings are fairly gross and certainly takes a bit more of a leap of faith when it come to crank on it. I can accurately give you exactly 3 MOA windage change with a new Soule rear sight with windage that is easy to do.

So for me with this rifle to crank on the front sight I have to be standing and looking down over the rifle.

I keep a picture of my front sight taped to the inside lid of my shooting box with instructions on which way to turn the screw to get the necessary left or right. You move the front sight in the opposite direction to get the same windage as a rear sight. Sounds simple, but when this is the only rifle with front windage you certainly don't want to crank it the wrong way in a match.

Fleener

Thank you so much! That was very helpful! I’m just learning about lrml. I’ve never done it before and there is so much I don’t understand.
regards

Not a problem. Hope you get the bug and join the AU International Team. Unfortunately I think my days of long range competition is over. I have arthritis in my right shoulder. Shooting a big heavy load in the prone position is very painful. Been dealing with the pain and issues for close to two years. Been to the Doc a few times and also physical therapist. Nothing they can do for arthritis and I am not willing to do a total shoulder replacement at this time. Started taking "relief factor" along with with *** balm and it has made a big difference in almost removing 100% of the daily pain. Saturday shooting a new rifle from the bench was very painful however.

My best option is to try shooting left handed.

Fleener

Fleener, look for an email please. I got a couple of questions for you

fleener said:

Not a problem. Hope you get the bug and join the AU International Team. Unfortunately I think my days of long range competition is over. I have arthritis in my right shoulder.

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Sorry to read this. Take care.

Best wishes

David

Widows Son said:

I’m just learning about lrml. I’ve never done it before and there is so much I don’t understand.

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I have a section of my web site for Long Range Muzzle Loading - there’s quite a few articles there that will hopefully assist. I managed an email discussion list on the subject for 20 years, until YahooGroups closed down. A small number of us here have competed internationally in long range muzzle loading - ask questions whether you shoot ‘informally’ or aspire to compete. It’s a great discipline.

Also don’t over look the military muzzle loader, such as the Enfield. Great sport can be had with these target shooting to 600 yards as was done in the 19thC.

David