Lots of chatter about caliber & loads for elk, but almost no mention of barrel length, nor rifling twist rate.

There has been much discussion about caliber and loads for big game. But almost no mention of barrel length and twist rate on performance.

If you are using a typical factory "Hawken" rifle for elk with the usual 28" length barrel with 1/48" twist rate then one really should be using conicals like the T/C Maxi-Hunter as that barrel is really too short and too fast of a twist to get optimum performance with patched ball.

A factory "Hawken" rifle of the usual type produced by CVA, Investarms, and T/C really should have a .54 caliber, 33" length barrel with 1/72" twist rifling rather than the usual 28" length, 1/48" twist barrel. I would be much pleased if Investarms were to reintroduce their Model 120A rifle but with a 33" barrel with 1/72" twist rifling. Make .54 caliber standard. forget about the smaller .45 and .50 calibers. Call this rifle "Big Elk Medicine".

Inches can increase velocity a bit. Lyman and Thompson center found about 10fps per inch. In function there’s is little difference between 28 and 42.
However with iron open sites longer barrels are easier to aim
Slow twist rates can handle large charges better but the original Hawkens had 1/48
Law might require a .50 or even .54, bigger is better with ball.
I took just one elk and it was a .54, 42”1/66 527 ball in .020 crisco greased patch 110 grains GO, shot at thirty yards DRT.

I took just one elk with a 54 Jonathon Browning Mountain Rifle. 120 yrs Goex 2fg, 530 ball, 018 pillow ticking patch, 1 in 66 twist, 100 yds. Shot through the rib cage and lungs, ball was flattened out just under the skin on the far side

Sixgun_Symphony said:

There has been much discussion about caliber and loads for big game. But almost no mention of barrel length and twist rate on performance.

If you are using a typical factory "Hawken" rifle for elk with the usual 28" length barrel with 1/48" twist rate then one really should be using conicals like the T/C Maxi-Hunter as that barrel is really too short and too fast of a twist to get optimum performance with patched ball.

A factory "Hawken" rifle of the usual type produced by CVA, Investarms, and T/C really should have a .54 caliber, 33" length barrel with 1/72" twist rifling rather than the usual 28" length, 1/48" twist barrel. I would be much pleased if Investarms were to reintroduce their Model 120A rifle but with a 33" barrel with 1/72" twist rifling. Make .54 caliber standard. forget about the smaller .45 and .50 calibers. Call this rifle "Big Elk Medicine".

Click to expand...

I thought that one needed at least "half a rotation" to impart the proper spin on a ball? So, at 1/72 the minimum would be a 36" right? I certainly agree that the .54 is probably more appropriate than the .50, but folks sure have killed a lot of animals with the .50.

RM

I don’t really agree with the need for a long barrel. My .58 has a 24” bbl and a 1:70 ROT. The ball has a 1700+ FPS velocity and MOA accuracy. Works fine on elk.

The myth that 1:48 rate of twist is somehow not sufficient for a patched ball, is just that, a big fat myth.

A 1:48 rate of twist was the most common rate of twist used by gun builders back when men's lives depended upon muzzleloading rifles in the 18th & 19th Centuries.

Regardless of caliber, a 1:48 twist will send a patched ball out to 100 yards with enough speed, and power, to kill a whitetail deer. This is true from .45 caliber, up to .66 caliber.

And, it will not require huge powder charges in order to kill at 100 yards.

A 75 grain powder charge will send a 0.615" diameter pure lead ball weighing 348 grains out to 100 yards with enough energy to penetrate the shoulder bones of elk & moose.

It is not necessary to utilize 120 grain powder charges in a .54 caliber patched ball barrel in order to humanely kill elk & moose.

It pains me to see posts like the OP's that keep perpetuating these old myths regarding the patched ball.

The first American-made big bore rifle that could utilize really heavy powder charges was the Hawken rifle built by Sam & Jake Hawken.
And guess what rate of twist that they used in their barrels? That's right, a 1:48" twist.

over these many years in the Mtns of Idaho i have taken many Elk.
None yet with a Muzzle loader. the kicker there is that each and every elk i have taken was within hand gun range and certainly within Muzzloader.
i have always striven to get close enough to my prey that i can whisper to them. have and made eye contact with many as they expired.
so many try to complicate all types of shooting.
it is Best at its simplest and a Joy to do.
just my two cents

You don’t need one half turn to stabilize a ball or bullet, if that was true no pistol would make good groups. This is a long barrel but a shorter barreled pistol group I didn’t have handy.

Sixgun_Symphony said:

There has been much discussion about caliber and loads for big game. But almost no mention of barrel length and twist rate on performance.

If you are using a typical factory "Hawken" rifle for elk with the usual 28" length barrel with 1/48" twist rate then one really should be using conicals like the T/C Maxi-Hunter as that barrel is really too short and too fast of a twist to get optimum performance with patched ball.

A factory "Hawken" rifle of the usual type produced by CVA, Investarms, and T/C really should have a .54 caliber, 33" length barrel with 1/72" twist rifling rather than the usual 28" length, 1/48" twist barrel. I would be much pleased if Investarms were to reintroduce their Model 120A rifle but with a 33" barrel with 1/72" twist rifling. Make .54 caliber standard. forget about the smaller .45 and .50 calibers. Call this rifle "Big Elk Medicine".

Click to expand...

What you say is merely conjecture & opinion & has not been shown to be the way things are in real world conditions. My experience has been that the depth of the rifling on a 48 twist has more to do with whether it shoots a PRB or Conical better. Sometimes it doesn't seem to matter at all. There are no "absolutes", as your post implies, with regard to length, twist, powder charge or whatever. If you can provide any analytical data to support your opinion, please post it.

I have seen where a father and son bought identical rifles at the same time. When at the range they did not like the same loads. Both had 1/48 twist. One shot the patched ball better and one liked a conical R.E.A.L. bullet. My humble opinion... there are NO absolutes when it comes to finding a load for a muzzleloader. Your rifle shoots best with what you shoot... mine shoots best with what I shoot.

Killed an elk with my .50 T/C New Englander, 26” barrel, 80 grains of 3F and 370 grain Maxi Ball. Distance was well past 100 yards. I still have the recovered Maxi Ball. I’m sure my New Englander has a 1:48” twist.

It’s to my belief that a little longer barrel with a faster twist shooting a heavy conical is superior for elk, especially at longer distances. However, I have proven that it is not necessary.

I have killed many elk in my days. Some were way out yonder but some were close shots under 100 yards. IMO, with shots past 100 yards on elk it is best to use a heavier conical. Accuracy is key so, whatever provides the best accuracy with the most thump ability at the extended ranges is, or should be, the deciding choice.

I no longer live in the NW nor hunt elk, but if I did I would most likely be using a .54 with a faster twist, longer barrel shooting custom heavy conical(s). Idaho Lewis an Idaho Ron both have this figured out quite well . Anyone can look up some posts and videos of what they have developed. It is most impressive.

As far as experimenting with larger custom calibers , my favorites are .62 , and ,58. I have built several of each , but only used them on deer in Pa.. The minimum barrel length on both calibers was 38" , mostly to gain longer sight plain. Once my eyesight became an issue , I added a Johnson peep sight , modified to mount on the tang instead of the barrel. Longest shot with the .62 , using 90 gr. ffg was 200 yds. , longest shot I ever made on a Pa. deer. Have made kills with a .58 , but most were unremarkable for distance. However , built a long barrel .58 w/ tang mtd. Johnson peep sight for a friend. Tested it to 150 yds. using 85 gr. ffg , shooting from a bench rest , and it was credibly accurate on deer size animals. At the range that afternoon , a large doe walked up beside the target hanger , after the rifle was sighted in , and sorely tempted me . Was not yet deer season , so she walked away.
I no longer have the stamina to hunt deer from anything but a ladder stand , but I still love to experiment with my home brew custom m/l rifles at the range.

Had to stop and think. . . the only elk rifles I can recall specifics on are .54 caliber, one with a 38" Douglass barrel (1:66" ROT), the other built with an original barrel about 40" long (1:48").

The hunters I guided used anything from a TC Hawken to a CVA Mountain Rifle to a Bivens Bicentennial rifle to various originals, so caliber/barrel length/ROT were all over the place. The only two I'm certain of are .70 caliber 33" barrel (1:33") and .53 (1:48"); these are both originals belonging to a friend of mine.

I've never seen the "need" for conicals when hunting, so have no experience with them.